Tesla 3 Performance v. Porsche 911 4S

[Jverhelst]

I think its fast disappearing pricing model. It has worked well for Porsche for sure, but markets change. The ritual of customizing your car: the fact that most of their cars are custom ordered and their custom manufacture is obviously highly refined, though no doubt extremely costly too.

There has been a lot of research on choice in the market place; that too much choice actually leads to lower levels of purchase. It is believed, for example, that Trader Joe's industry topping revenues per square foot (and profits too) is related to the fact that they offer far less choice than traditional supermarkets. (3,000 SKUs versus 35,000 SKUs for an average supermarket, if I remember correctly).

On another front: the SAAS software market typically offers three choices: 'good, better, best'. I'm sure there is a lot of research behind this approach.

Sound familiar? It is exactly the approach Tesla takes!

I'm personally a big convert. I began to find Porsche's pricing approach really annoying. I always wanted the best but it began to grate on me that everything was extra.

I bought my Tesla with five clicks, total. Absolutely no choice other than color for me since I was committed to getting the fastest version I could, especially considering the princely sum of $6,000 for the privilege!

The automotive market is in the early stages of an incredible transition away from ownership towards autonomous transportation as a service. I think it will happen faster not slower than median expectations.

Too much choice is never good.. and indeed Porsche gives the consumer too many options.. an endless list of all sorts of options. On the other hand, Tesla could use a bit more personalisation

 

[Jverhelst]

What the Tesla doesn't do, to me, is replace the 911 on those journeys where the ONLY reason I am going out is to drive, and to feel the road. To be connected to the machine and to feel it reacting to the road. Feel it flowing with the pavement. Feel the precision of the components beneath you. If you start looking for that, the Tesla falls flat, quickly. The steering offers zero feedback. The seats have almost zero lateral bolstering. The suspension, good up to 6 or 7/10ths and about 80 MPH, starts to lose composure quickly above that. There's no mechanical feedback to indicate speed beyond the wind noise. No "reward" for increasing your speed beyond tire squeal. That's why the 911 felt even more special when I drove it for those reasons.

The other thing I appreciate in my 911 is the craftsmanship, the build quality. The quality of the interior components are worlds better than the Model 3. Something as simple as the side of the center tunnel shows this. In the Model 3 it's pretty flimsy and insubstantial. The 911 has layers of components making up the structure. There is an engineering elegance to it. And, IMO, this becomes more and more apparent the older you go in the 911 catalog.

I never used my 911 as a daily. You could, as many have, but to me it's frustrating to do so. Too much feedback, would get irritating to me on my long commute. Conversely, the Model 3 has made my commute as almost effortless as can be. I really ENJOY driving it to and from work. It's very satisfying.
...

well written

 

[wws]

Too much choice is never good.. and indeed Porsche gives the consumer too many options.. an endless list of all sorts of options. On the other hand, Tesla could use a bit more personalisation

The absurd thing on the Taycan is that a lot of the options, like heated seats and steering wheel, should be standard equipment on a $200k EV. Having to accommodate endless build options drives up production costs - whether those options are chosen or not.

 

[Magellan55]

The absurd thing on the Taycan is that a lot of the options, like heated seats and steering wheel, should be standard equipment on a $200k EV. Having to accommodate endless build options drives up production costs - whether those options are chosen or not.

Might just be marketing, but I've heard Porsche does this to accommodate purists that just want a pure sports car with no frills that add weight and complexity.

 

[Uncle Paul]

If that is the case, why do they still charge such high prices for the accessories.

Porsche is one of the highest profit companies in the Automotive industry.

Used to build some of the most enjoyable, well built and great feeling cars. Had a fantastic connection between car and driver. Great sounds as well. Now, not so much.

 

[Magellan55]

If that is the case, why do they still charge such high prices for the accessories.

Your second sentence answered your first - because they can

 

[997at]

Hi All. I feel that I'm somewhat qualified to comment on this thread. I consider my self lucky enough to own 2 911s and a Model 3 as well.
I got the M3 at my wife's suggestion as I was looking to get an electric car so I could use the HOV lane to cross the Bay Bridge each day. To be honest I wasn't that thrilled about the prospect, but after the test drive I was hooked. I absolutely love the car, what it stands for and the features. I also love the way it drives...but make no mistake, it is no 911 and they are different animals. My quick thoughts as follows:
Acceleration on the M3 is simply awesome. Suspension and ride quality is amazing. Features are incredible as all of you know. Build quality is not that great nor are the materials. Mine is a 2019 and after delivery I had to have the drivers seat foam replaced, a few of the panels adjusted for fit (perfect now) and the dash pad replaced due to bubbling. The paint job as you guys know is sub par, and interior materials are just okay. However, no car is perfect and I'm willing to live with those negatives for the amazing drivetrain, ride, and features. I love the Scandinavian style interior too. It's my daily driver and it makes my commute a blissful pleasure with some point and squirt acceleration fun when traffic allows. The M3 could be much more of a true drivers car if they did a few simple things...most notably put in a real drivers seat, lower the car a bit more, and put some wider tires at least in the rear...but I suspect these things are not what the car was intended for.
My first 911 is a 1982 911 SC. For those who have described what true analog driving pleasure is, that is what this car delivers. You can have insane driving fun at sane speeds (mostly sane anyway). Material and build quality is from an era of excellence that cannot be repeated today. Find any air cooled Porsche car built up until 1998 and simply close the door...you will appreciate what I am saying in an instant. This is a car you adore for its heritage, the craftsmanship, build quality, looks, and driving pleasure.
My other 911 is a 2013 C4S. When I think about the things Tesla can do better moving forwards, simply sit in an 18 way adjustable sport seat in a modern 911...nuff said. Put these things in an M3 and it will transform the car. Suspension and ride...if you really push a car hard, you will appreciate the difference between a 911 and the rest. The richness of the cabin, fit and finish...it all adds up.
All this being said, these are 3 different cars all amazing in their own way. If I had to pick one it would be hard for sure. If I had to go down to 1 car, I think it would be a Taycan. There is no substitute for quality for me...others will feel differently. In the not too distant future, 911s will be all electric...frankly I can't wait.

 

[mafpolo]

Too much choice is never good.. and indeed Porsche gives the consumer too many options.. an endless list of all sorts of options. On the other hand, Tesla could use a bit more personalisation

You are not kidding. Porsche's menu is ridiculous and everything is an option. I looked at a CPO Cayenne that was loaded up for a Cayenne, but whoever ordered it did so with base stereo. Even the Bose is just meh, but base stereo is like mud.

 

[mr965]

It’s ok until you get a fault code and it shuts all driver assists down like mine did today. A little disappointing and scary. 9100 miles and no problems until today. Frustrated.

 

[Fernand]

Hey @mr965 since you're relatively new here let me recommend the general cure if you haven't done it. Put car in Park and Reboot both computers. With any luck it might clear the faults.

1) Press both scroll wheels on steering fully in, hold until screen goes black and then reboots and the Tesla logo appears, then 10 seconds more, then let go. That reboots the screen CPU.

2) Find Power Off in whichever menu, I forget. Turn you phone to Airplane mode so it cannot talk to the car. Tap the power off and sit in the car as it gradually powers everything down. Don't get up, don't do nuthin'. After about 3 minutes it should be dead as a potato. Don't rush it. Then tap the brake pedal and reactivate your phone. That has rebooted your control CPU.

After the last update and the dual reboot I forgot to reactivate my phone's bluetooth. My wallet with the key card was in the house. It was late at night. As I got out of the car the alarm went ballistic and wouldn't go off until I reactivated the phone connection.

The neighbors must have appreciated it.
.

 

[Fernand]

As to the M3 handling, there's a maneuver you can't do in a 911. You're pulling up to a herd that's slowing for say a red light. You realize you want to be one or a couple of lanes over. You make like a Knight's move on a chessboard. Mash the accelerator and instantly leap through to the desired position. No vroom vroom, just teleported. Watch the other drivers who blinked and missed it go "huh? where did that car come from?". Hilarious and rewarding.
.

 

[pnoble]

Hi All. I feel that I'm somewhat qualified to comment on this thread. I consider my self lucky enough to own 2 911s and a Model 3 as well.
I got the M3 at my wife's suggestion as I was looking to get an electric car so I could use the HOV lane to cross the Bay Bridge each day. To be honest I wasn't that thrilled about the prospect, but after the test drive I was hooked. I absolutely love the car, what it stands for and the features. I also love the way it drives...but make no mistake, it is no 911 and they are different animals. My quick thoughts as follows:
Acceleration on the M3 is simply awesome. Suspension and ride quality is amazing. Features are incredible as all of you know. Build quality is not that great nor are the materials. Mine is a 2019 and after delivery I had to have the drivers seat foam replaced, a few of the panels adjusted for fit (perfect now) and the dash pad replaced due to bubbling. The paint job as you guys know is sub par, and interior materials are just okay. However, no car is perfect and I'm willing to live with those negatives for the amazing drivetrain, ride, and features. I love the Scandinavian style interior too. It's my daily driver and it makes my commute a blissful pleasure with some point and squirt acceleration fun when traffic allows. The M3 could be much more of a true drivers car if they did a few simple things...most notably put in a real drivers seat, lower the car a bit more, and put some wider tires at least in the rear...but I suspect these things are not what the car was intended for.
My first 911 is a 1982 911 SC. For those who have described what true analog driving pleasure is, that is what this car delivers. You can have insane driving fun at sane speeds (mostly sane anyway). Material and build quality is from an era of excellence that cannot be repeated today. Find any air cooled Porsche car built up until 1998 and simply close the door...you will appreciate what I am saying in an instant. This is a car you adore for its heritage, the craftsmanship, build quality, looks, and driving pleasure.
My other 911 is a 2013 C4S. When I think about the things Tesla can do better moving forwards, simply sit in an 18 way adjustable sport seat in a modern 911...nuff said. Put these things in an M3 and it will transform the car. Suspension and ride...if you really push a car hard, you will appreciate the difference between a 911 and the rest. The richness of the cabin, fit and finish...it all adds up.
All this being said, these are 3 different cars all amazing in their own way. If I had to pick one it would be hard for sure. If I had to go down to 1 car, I think it would be a Taycan. There is no substitute for quality for me...others will feel differently. In the not too distant future, 911s will be all electric...frankly I can't wait.

I don’t disagree 997at, but I really don’t miss the truly wonderful 911 seats and I think there is one reason only: I don’t have an opportunity to compare on a daily basis. If I could I’m sure I would!

It’s probably a blessing that I don’t get the chance to remind myself how wonderful 911 seats are or can be (my last also 18-way in a 991.2). Meanwhile, I find the M3P seats just fine though in no way objectively comparable to the form-fitting 911 experience.

The upside, I suppose, of only owning one car at a time!

 

[jbcarioca]

The absurd thing on the Taycan is that a lot of the options, like heated seats and steering wheel, should be standard equipment on a $200k EV. Having to accommodate endless build options drives up production costs - whether those options are chosen or not.

I personally have not seen any 'stripper' 911s ever. 912s, yes. All the ones I have personally encountered have been pretty well loaded with options. I rather doubt that Porsche production costs suffer from all that because they always successfully con us into buying. I recall actually paying a premium premium when Triple Black was a thing.
It has always been irritating, but also part of the story. After all Porsche was often the king of owner satisfaction until Tesla came along. I'll not buy another Porsche, the Taycan and other Giants are not my preferences. Still I remember how much I liked them back a while ago.

 

[Magellan55]

I personally have not seen any 'stripper' 911s ever. 912s, yes. All the ones I have personally encountered have been pretty well loaded with options.

Sample size of 1, but one of the 911's I test drove at the Porsche dealer before buying my S had only 3 options. It was a used 991.1 (pre-turbo), as it was the only thing on their lot with a manual. It had the Bose stereo, upgraded wheels, and power sports seats. No keyless start, no comfort access. Black on black. I wondered how long it had been on the lot unsold. Fun as heck though - the most pure sports car I had ever driven. I was really torn between the manual+non-turbo against the 991.2+PDK in terms of fun factor, though I'm sure the latter would spank it on a race course.

 

[Bill Price]

i've done up to 130 in the desert. Very solid for me.

 

[Knightshade]

So just maybe there is some significant cost saving through this approach but I question if it is worth the somewhat negative customer experience, at least from my POV. Impressive that they come to your home, mind you!

FWIW- Elon actually just addressed this question when someone asked why not install HW in every model 3 and have it be a paid SW unlock.... basically said the same thing we've discussed- HW is $ in every car including those that don't use it.


Elon Musk on Twitter

Homelink is 3rd party hardware that increases cost of all cars, but only some people use it, so it’s only installed upon request. Long-term, garage openers are transitioning to WiFi-activated.

Seems to support suggestion Tesla looked at what % of fleet uses the feature and concluded it was better/cheaper to make it on-request after delivery than eat the cost in 100% of built cars.

 

[Austindude]

Back in 2004 I purchased a new 911 cabriolet (not the turbo version), owned the car for almost six years and I loved it, though it certainly wasn't maintenance free. I have also owned numerous other sports cars and I believe my 2018 LR RWD Model 3 is the best car that I have owned. I also think my 3 is about as quick or even quicker (0 - 60) than that 2004 standard transmission Porsche. I have also had the pleasure of owning a Model S which I loved but sold. The S was a nicer looking car but I'm still happy with my first generation Model 3. I think you'll be happy with your 3P.

 

[OCJoe]

sure, I know what you mean...



it’s not engaging. Anyone can put his foot on a pedal and everytime de M3P wil do exactly the same thing without any drama.



But to each his own

You have captured the essence of it jverhelst. Some want drama. Some don't. To each his own. I'm a confirmed member of the "no drama" camp

 

[pnoble]

+1

 

[pnoble]

I had my first malfunction yesterday: the audio was down completely. When I got to my destination, I grabbed my iPhone and went online. Suggestions were: it may correct itself when you return to the car or manually reboot. I returned to the car sometime later. After a few seconds it rebooted itself (it took maybe 30 seconds) and all was fine. I didn't lift a finger. It was all resolved in under a minute.

I mention this only in contrast to my Porsche 911 experience (I'm not going off topic!) over many years. My Porsche dealer provided truly excellent service but anything, including firmware issues, required a visit to the dealership and a wait at the least. As in: a total waste of my time.

From what I have read, many Tesla issues (certainly not all) are resolved by a customer reboot. It sure beats a bespoke, white glove, concierge, Porsche dealer reboot from my POV! And, yes, most 911 issues were not reboots or firmware updates but mechanical in nature. But that's also the point.

I find that my tolerance for service and support by others has diminished in an era where so much, i.e. our personal technology - is mostly self-serviceable and supportable.

Even when, in the case of a 911, the service is and was typically absolutely free (as in: you pay dearly for it up front) under warranty. You are still paying a price in time and dependency on others.