i feel they should use the most recent (2021) tax return as reference. But i am not sure.
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Tesla $7500 Tax Credit Coming Back?
- Thread starter nate704
- Start date
I highly doubt that you will delay more than 30 days (if you have not done already). Also, if the tax credit is "at point of sale" they will use 2022 return since the tax credit is eligible for those who buy the EVs in 2023. If the tax credit is either (refundable/non-refundable), you will file your claim in 2024 for your newly purchased EV in 2023 (assuming you can delay more than 30 days from your EDD, which is highly unlikely).
Thanks for the input. What I'm confused about is if I delay somehow until after 1/1 but take delivery before tax day 2023, my 2022 return won't even be filed/complete. The credit is going to be at point of sale and not a tax credit at end of year. I'm just not sure how how they are going to manage this.
You can claim your last filed return. If you are still waiting for delivery and your 2022 return is due (April 15) just make sure you pay any tax due and file an extension. You would then not actually be required to finally file until October 15. That would be the scenario if the credit is claimed at point of sale.
Tesla lists battery supply chain detail on p. 103 of their 2021 Impact Report:
https://www.tesla.com/ns_videos/2021-tesla-impact-report.pdf
Taking lithium, for example, two of the suppliers who both mine and refine are in China,
one (Livent) mines in both China and Argentina but refines in the US, and one (Albemarle)
mines in Australia but refines in China.
Since the proposed tax credit regulation says that the minerals requirement is met if
the mining *or* the refining is from a free-trade country, then Tesla can source lithium
from the two suppliers named above, at least for U.S. cars.
Nickel is fine from Australia or Canada (but not Indonesia currently), but cobalt is tricky
as seen from p. 103 if Tesla cares about rebates. However, if Tesla can source cobalt
from battery recyclers like Redwood Materials instead.
Your question about by-volume or by-weight is a good one.
pepperoni
Member
If it is a tax credit for 2023, they will ask about it on your 2023 return in 2024. If you received a point of sale credit that you did not qualify for because you made too much in 2023, the IRS will add that amount back to your tax bill on your 1040. I can’t see that delaying your 2022 return would change that.
Thanks for the link. An interesting quote... ".... Cobalt, lithium and nickel are also classified as critical minerals by the United States, European Union and Canadian governments because they are essential in enabling a transition away from fossil fuels to a low-carbon economy. ..."
The proposed language says ".... the vehicle having at least 40% of its battery critical minerals from the United States or countries with a free trade agreement with the United States ..."
So for the LFP battery cells from CATL, they don't contain Cobalt or Nickel, the only critical mineral is Lithium. Iron doesn't seem to be 'critical.' So if 40% of the lithium in the CATL cells comes from Australia and or Chile, (2 of the biggest lithium suppliers) they could qualify.
Tesla also says ".... Tesla creates our products from many different materials and components, some of which we purchase from our direct (Tier 1) suppliers. Many of our Tier 1 suppliers do not purchase all their raw materials directly, rather they get them from their suppliers and sub-suppliers around the world through a complex supply chain. ..." So Tesla may not know where the true source of all their minerals come from.
Showing compliance with this clause could be difficult. But just because the cells were made in China doesn't mean they can't qualify.
pepperoni
Member
I don’t think Tesla is offering indefinite holds any more, and may limit you to 30 days. They will also eventually cancel your order if you reject too many cars they offer. You can certainly try though. Plenty of others did waiting for the EV tax credit last year, and ended up with cancelled orders.
Enjoy your new ride next month or your reservation will be cancelled and you will be out $250.
Plus the difference in sales price between current prices and his order.
Will EVs which currently qualify for a $7500 tax credit but are not made in North America, such as the Ioniq5 / EV6, still qualify for the current credit after 2023 (if the new bill passes) assuming they still haven't sold the maximum number of vehicles (I think 200,000)?
In other words will the new bill entirely replace the current law, or will the current law still be in effect along with the new bill?
In other words will the new bill entirely replace the current law, or will the current law still be in effect along with the new bill?
My read of the bill is you need a “written sales order,” or a “binding” sales agreement signed before the president signs the bill into law and the vehicle must be delivered by Dec 31, 2023 in order to be grandfathered into the old law. In other words, find an I5/EV6 that isn’t already claimed in the next few days.
My story is I have an order for an ioniq 5 with anticipated delivery in “4-6mo” placed about a month ago (before this new legislation was announced) without a deposit (dealer out of area who is not charging a $5k markup as 90% of Hyundai and Kia dealers are now). They have subsequently told me this is not a “written sales order,” so will not qualify as such under new law. I simultaneously ordered a M3 SR+ for $250 nonrefundable deposit also with a 4-6mo delivery. I figured I would let fate decide which vehicle would be my next, though deep down, as a former engineer and with taking a new job requiring 140mi of commuting a day mostly on roads that WON’T be LiDAR mapped by a Tesla competitors, I really want the Tesla to see what FSD can do. Then MANCHIN! Now the M3 SR+ might qualify and the ioniq 5 won’t (assembled in S. Korea), WHAT?
Then I get into the weeds of CATL LFP battery (which, btw big fan of LFP vs NCA - slightly less performance, but cost less, better durability, and can feel OK charging to 100%, sign me up!), also read this, which, while dated, supports one of the above poster’s suppositions that Tesla doesn’t really know where it gets it’s minerals from. Then also learn that CATL might open an assembly facility in the US, as another one of the posters above mentioned (unfortunately, not until 2026 :-(). So my head is swimming in NCA, LFP, M3 SR+, I5, LIPO4, LiNiCo, DC fast charging La La land.
So the short answer here is, I should buy an ioniq 5 if I can in the next few days (to qualify under the old law), or hold out and see if my M3 SR+ happens to qualify/just buy it because it’s what I want. Then, because my delivery date is Nov 18-Dec 31, find a way to delay delivery until Jan 1 without getting kicked out of the Tesla club because I dragged my feet for 30 days, only to find out some congressional committee that doesn’t like Elon Musk decided to enforce the “intent” of the law such that my M3 SR+ no longer qualifies after I took a price hike by changing my order to make sure my delivery date was after Dec 31 to not waste my $250 bucks and all the while the only winner is Elon Musk (and maybe me when I’m cursing Elon for simultaneously being an buffoon and a genius).
I chose a crazy time to buy an EV! Maybe I should just throw in the towel, keep my paid off VW TDI Sportwagen 6MT and drive myself to work for the rest of my employed life.
What do y’all think?
Then, while driving my M3 SR+ with FSD that kept trying to hit a stopped ambulance, I read this, and learn that I could have bought a bolt EUV that would nearly drive me to work for half the price of my M3 SR+ ($27,500 after qualifying under the new law)…then I wake up from my dream and realize the law never passed because someone or the other senator that’s democratic from traditionally conservative state got COVID and couldn’t make the vote.
It is very possible that the maximum credit for the Model Y (if any) would be $3750 for US manufactured battery parts, The other $3750 is dependent on raw material sourcing and it is unclear how many manufacturers including Tesla meet the standards in the bill. The OEMs are pleading with Manchin to delay the implementation of the raw material requirement until quantities are actually available. He has said NO CHANGES to his precious deal.
It could be that for a time no EVs will qualify for the new credit.
Delay deliveries at your peril.
It could be that for a time no EVs will qualify for the new credit.
Delay deliveries at your peril.
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