Tesla and Panasonic Collaborate to Develop Next-Generation Battery Cell Technology

[dpeilow]

With the Model S still being a couple years off, I expect its batteries to be even better than these.

Or these to be the cheap, sweet-spot cells at the time the Model S is released.

Still think Tesla should make a money-no-object ultimate pack available at the time, though :biggrin:

 

[vfx]

With the Model S still being a couple years off, I expect its batteries to be even better than these.

At some point the have to lock in. That could be now.

 

[Iz]

At some point they have to lock in. That could be now.

Therein lies the dilemma. 3.1 Ah cells will not be the latest and greatest in 2012. One approach is to allow owners to exchange their battery packs for one having the latest configuration. However when Model S is delivered it will already have outdated packs.

How farfetched is the idea of an owner maintained pack where one can replace individual cells provided these future cells are much larger, thereby requiring few cells?

 

[dpeilow]

The announcement at Christmas from Panasonic stated that the next generation of 3.4Ah cells will enter production in 2012, followed by the 4Ah in 2013. However, these new 3.1Ah are later than the original announcement, so there is every chance that they will still be state of the art in 2012.

 

[AnOutsider]

How farfetched is the idea of an owner maintained pack where one can replace individual cells provided these future cells are much larger, thereby requiring few cells?

I'd say extremely far-fetched. Tesla is aiming as mass market with these. You know, the same folks with range anxiety and all that. Not YOU folks who are smart enough to do actually do what you suggest

 

[vfx]

You also have to factor in the commodity angle. Tesla chose batteries that had been proven in the marketplace. Would they now forsake that safety net and go with an untried product?

 

[Iz]

Excellent point vfx. Panasonic delivers tested and proven technologies. Still, it is difficult to know some of the newer technologies will become production ready one day and cannot be considered yet.

Outsider, I would wait just a little while longer for a Model S with 3.4 Ah cells. Given an 8000 cell pack that would amount to ~ 400 mile range/charge.

 

[vfx]

Outsider, I would wait ...

At 400+ posts, is he still an "Outsider"?

 

[Iz]

At 400+ posts, is he still an "Outsider"?

And P-463 Model S.

 

[AnOutsider]

Outsider, I would wait just a little while longer for a Model S with 3.4 Ah cells. Given an 8000 cell pack that would amount to ~ 400 mile range/charge.

I don't see why that couldn't be a Tesla-supplied upgrade option down the line. Just not user-installable :smile:

At 400+ posts, is he still an "Outsider"?

Always!

 

[rolosrevenge]

The cells in the current Roadster battery pack got locked down a while ago and I think those are 2.4 Ah cells. So if that's the case, 3.1 Ah cells would mean a 29% improvement.

So the current cells are 2.4 Ahr? My Energizer AA rechargeable NiMH are 2.45 Ahr. That doesn't seem right to me since the Li Cells used in the Roadster are larger than AA. Also a sales rep at the Seattle store told me today that the newer batteries were for the Model S.

 

[TEG]

So the current cells are 2.4 Ahr? My Energizer AA rechargeable NiMH are 2.45 Ahr. That doesn't seem right to me since the Li Cells used in the Roadster are larger than AA. Also a sales rep at the Seattle store told me today that the newer batteries were for the Model S.

AA are ~1.5V, 18650 are ~3.75V so 2.5 times the Wh for the same Ahr...

 

[Iz]

I don't see why that couldn't be a Tesla-supplied upgrade option down the line.

Agreed. However, it would be a win-win for TM and Panasonic, as well as reservation holders, if they could deliver Model S with 3.4 cells.

 

[domenick]

Agreed. However, it would be a win-win for TM and Panasonic, as well as reservation holders, if they could deliver Model S with 3.4 cells.

....and 2nd gen Roadsters with 4ah. :smile:

 

[rolosrevenge]

AA are ~1.5V, 18650 are ~3.75V so 2.5 times the Wh for the same Ahr...

I have always though that Ah is a stupid unit for batteries. Wh makes so much more sense since it is a measure of energy, which batteries store.

 

[TEG]

Toyota's battery venture with Panasonic gets renamed Primearth EV Energy

 

[Bradleybang]

So the new Toyotas will run on PEE.
Seems more yellow than green.
:biggrin:

 

[TEG]

I would go with PEVE since EV is already an acronym.