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Tesla and Trump

Discussion in 'TSLA Investor Discussions' started by ivengo, Nov 9, 2016.

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  1. ivengo

    ivengo Member

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    Is there a scenario where the election of Trump is more beneficial to Tesla then the election of Clinton?

    Possible options:
    Trump does not change current tax credits for EV or Solar
    Reduced taxes benefit Tesla as a company
    Outraged voters buy EVs to support clean energy message despite Trump support of coal and other non-renewable sources
    Other car companies take EV less seriously due to decreased pressure from the regulators and maintaining Tesla's edge longer compared to what is possible otherwise.

    Anything else?
     
    • Like x 1
  2. drj3

    drj3 Member

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    I don't know about more beneficial, but I don't think the Trump administration will have a significant negative effect on Tesla and here is why. Tesla is already on a significant path to making their products compelling without any incentives or subsidies. In fact, I could see a climate change denying CEO of an oil company having a Tesla solar roof on his house simply because it is beautiful, more durable than a conventional roof, and less expensive over the life of the roof than a conventional roof. If net metering is reduced, that simply helps sell more Tesla powerwalls. The big oil CEO may even want a Tesla car in his garage because it is the safest, highest performance car he can buy for the money.
    In short, I think Tesla will succeed because the products themselves are becoming more compelling and affordable every day, with or without government incentives.
     
    • Like x 2
  3. jbcarioca

    jbcarioca Active Member

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    Trump policy:
    -reduces emphasis on renewables, especially wind but solar too,
    -plans to eliminate EPA regulatory role,
    -favors all hydrocarbons plus coal, eliminating Clean Air Act, Clean Water act and incentivizing fracking,
    -has key advisers from oil and gas, fracking, utilities, none favoring or even discussing EV's
    On balance reading the Paul Ryan plan (Trump has none published, but suddenly Ryan seems on the ascendancy again, maybe) the elimination of any EPA regulatory role and rescission of nearly all related plans makes a Tesla US success dependent on California and other states cooperation plus customers really wanting Tesla.

    Is that enough? I suspect it is for the car side. I don't have confidence on the Solar City side.

    I have little confidence that my views are accurate.
     
    • Like x 3
  4. S4WRXTTCS

    S4WRXTTCS Active Member

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    The good news is EV adoption was already at a point where the incentives weren't going to last much longer. So I can't see the removal of them mattering too much.

    But, it's horrible news for green technology in general. He's a climate change denier so don't expect any Obama like programs.

    I fail to see how anyone could possibly think that voting for Trump would be in support of Tesla's mission.

    By voting for Trump they gave the planet the middle finger.

    People aren't going to care about EV's or Solar because now they got bigger problems to worry about. There is no silver lining, and there is no light at the end of the tunnel. It's just pure hell for those of us that looked forwards to a cleaner future.
     
    • Like x 3
  5. Olle

    Olle Member

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    Other nations now have to do even more cleaning to compensate for Trump's fossil fuel apetite. Tha probably means even more EVs outside of the US. So could be neutral to good for Tesla.
    Trump is horrible news for SolarCity
    Trump is great News for Spacex (i.e. the Mars Missions) since the Earth will become inhabitable quicker now.
     
    • Funny x 2
  6. TheTalkingMule

    TheTalkingMule Distributed Energy Enthusiast

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    I disagree. The only way fossil fuel usage was going to go up dramatically was is an oil insider became president, Trump has no dog in that race. He will institute a rules-free marketplace, but has no real incentive to push something like coal. That coal messaging was about votes.

    I see EV and solar adoption accelerating at the consumer end as people realize they need to act, not just assume the future will come on its own. I had no plans to buy a M3 until maybe 2020, but I'll certainly now get in line.

    Also, the minute Congress floats a plan to repeal Inc you'll get the largest residential solar install burst you've ever seen. And then it won't even get repealed.

    Solar is cheaper and EVs are better, nothing Trump is likely to do will change that.
     
  7. TI Sailor

    TI Sailor Supporting Member

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    Coal messaging was more than just about votes. Trump needs McConnell (R-KY) and vice-versa to push their dual agendas. It's no secret Kentucky long survived on coal mining (and mint juleps) and has been in a relative economic nosedive since regulations tightened and the need for coal lessened. McConnell wants to change both. Quid pro quo will be the primary bargaining chip.
     
  8. S'toon

    S'toon Knows where his towel is

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    Trump would revoke crucial climate protections and open up huge amounts of land to fossil fuel drilling.

    Trump campaign suggests appointing oil executive to protect national parks and public lands

    Trump has a vested interest in seeing controversial Dakota Access pipeline completed
     
    • Informative x 1
  9. TheTalkingMule

    TheTalkingMule Distributed Energy Enthusiast

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    That's all campaign talk, tell them what they want to hear.

    Trump has no agenda whatsoever other than being a lunatic. I think you'll find McConnell will gain less traction with Trump than Bernie Sanders, if I'm not mistaken Mitch is already on the *sugar* list and is most certainly part of the establishment that Trump hates so much and drives every action he takes.

    Coal has been replaced by the powerful natural gas cabal and i would be willing to bet Trump has no interest in changing that dynamic now that he's in office(pending child rape charges). I really don't think he cares much so the existing market will continue. There will be far less regulation, but who in their right mind would build a coal plant right now?
     
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  10. Garlan Garner

    Garlan Garner Well-Known Member

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    I pray that Trump leaves EV alone - BAU.

    3000
     
  11. tigerade

    tigerade Member

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    I am not sure there is any ambiguity here. Trump has said on multiple occasions, in a very clear and concise manner that he believes AGW to be a hoax, and for green initiatives to be a waste of money that he will roll back. Yes, it is possible that Tesla will survive this, they probably will. But that's kind of like being a deer in a forest full of hunters, and hoping that another deer will be hunted. Any hope of a good outcome here is at best wishful thinking and at worst a delusion. It is no longer time to bargain or negotiate, it is time to fight.
     
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  12. tentonine

    tentonine Member

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    My biggest Trump concern actually relates to level 5 autonomy and the Tesla Network. He wants to stop jobs being lost, so he may move to prevent full autonomy from being permitted in the near future.
     
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  13. rapoport3a

    rapoport3a Member

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    A lot of speculation is showing up here. The only certain thing to me is that the oil and gas guys have long wanted to kill off Tesla and now have a "government" led by a vindictive maniac dictator beholden to them to do it for them. Not helped by California and Nevada voting for Clinton. Won't take long, will it.
     
    • Disagree x 1
  14. AudubonB

    AudubonB Mild-mannered Moderator Lord Vetinari*

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    Mod Note for ALL:

    Off-topic posts and ranting, after a fashion, will be overlooked in the Investor Sector through this weekend. After that, ALL will be under closer scrutiny than ever.

    Vetinari
     
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  15. DaveT

    DaveT Searcher of green pastures

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    I agree. I view this as a major concern.
     
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  16. AudubonB

    AudubonB Mild-mannered Moderator Lord Vetinari*

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    Mod Note:

    (not specifically directed toward any recent post; rather, this note is going to ALL active Investor threads).

    LAST day of tolerance toward posts that otherwise would have been, and are, unacceptable. One week of election-related wailing and gnashing of teeth and blaming it on others and overall unproductive posts is enough.
     
  17. Curt Renz

    Curt Renz Active Member

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    As I wrote last week in the short term thread, Trump administration policies should be beneficial and not harmful to Tesla.

    1) Tesla cars and battery packs are made in American factories with American workers.
    2) Reduced fuel economy standards for ICE cars make electric cars more attractive to consumers.
    3) Reduced fuel economy standards for ICE cars may eliminate need for competitors to produce electric cars.
    4) Elimination of electric car tax credits mainly hurts competitors, since Tesla will soon be over the limit.
    5) Improvement of infrastructure implies more driving.
    6) Strict constructionist Supreme Court justices may be more likely to interpret the Constitution's interstate commerce clause in Tesla's favor.

    BTW, Mr. Trump owns a Tesla Roadster so he is apparently not ignorant or disapproving of the company.
     
  18. Garlan Garner

    Garlan Garner Well-Known Member

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    Come on.

    Neither of those are Trumps policies.
     
  19. eloder

    eloder Active Member

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    These points are only salient if Mr. Trump actually follows his own ideals. You're only looking at what he is saying/promising.

    Every single point you mention here are stated goals of conservatives in general, yet:

    1) Most right-wing state governments ban/limit Tesla sales or service centers. You'd think that conservative governments would build a statue of Elon Musk in every town in an effort to praise the only all-American producer and manufacturer of cars that also secure energy independence from Middle Eastern oil, yet there's only opposition to Tesla.
    2) Right-wing politicians love oil & gas subsidies and the oil & gas industries. EVs are one of the biggest threats to this industry. They're not going to let this go unanswered, just like in many state governments around the US.
    3) See above.
    4) I don't think credits matter anyways if it's illegal to service your car in a majority of US states (right-wing states may feel emboldened by a Trump victory and fast-track legislation; see recently proposed Ohio legislation that would ban all new Teslas from being driven on Ohio public roads by subjecting drivers to fines of $10,000 a day).
    5) There's no way that the US can pay for infrastructure improvements with the revenue loss of Trump's tax plans.
    6) Possibly true, but this may also pave the way for far more corruption like Citizen's United.
     
    • Like x 1
  20. Gregkeys

    Gregkeys Member

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    Trump loves tesla not sure why everyone thinks he is going to destroy it, he also loves space x and has already pledged to clear the path for space exploration.
     

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