Tesla App Utility plan configuration: Multiple Peaks, Buy/Sell Behavior, etc

[nikk]

Sure, np. FWIW, if you use self powered mode with a reserve, you are also lessening your impact on the grid (meeting the "pull less from the grid" objective you mentioned). The only "issue" if you can call it that, is that powerwalls are only (roughly) 90% efficient, so you are losing some of the solar power by running it through the powerwalls, provided you have net metering and are allowed to export to the grid.

Your location says honolulu, and I thought I remembered Hawaii being pretty restrictive on whether you could feed back to the grid at all, so if thats the case for you (no grid export at all), then you likely want to get as much use out of your solar as possible, so that also matches self powered mode with a reserve that makes sense to you (enough to get you through the night till morning sunrise, etc).

Thanks again!

 

[JayClark]

Gotta love my Arizona utility! I am on a service plan where the buy price is lower than the sell price. After I selected my service plan in the app, Tesla thinks there is an error in my tariff! It shows a red message that says, "Sell price should not be greater than buy price."

Interesting! Who is your Utility and what rate plan are you on that has lower buy price than Sell. Sounds like an amazing deal.

 

[aswami]

Interesting! Who is your Utility and what rate plan are you on that has lower buy price than Sell. Sounds like an amazing deal.

Arizona Public Service (APS). They have a plan called Saver Choice Max or TOU with Demand. They sell you power for 5 cents or 9 cents per kwh (price varies by on-peak / off-peak and summer/winter). They buy back excess power for 9.45 cents per kwh. Be careful on this rate though - the Demand price is very high $15 to $17 per kw during peak hour. If you are not careful, the demand charge can erode all your savings. Many people don't understand Demand and/or can't control it easily. If they do, this plan really works for them. I have Powerwalls. So, I consume almost NO electricity off the grid during peak hours, thus keeping my Demand near zero.

It IS an amazing deal. A steal really. Due to this rate, my solar + powerwall installed on a loan is cash flow positive.

Let me know if there are more questions.

 

[JayClark]

Arizona Public Service (APS). They have a plan called Saver Choice Max or TOU with Demand. They sell you power for 5 cents or 9 cents per kwh (price varies by on-peak / off-peak and summer/winter). They buy back excess power for 9.45 cents per kwh. Be careful on this rate though - the Demand price is very high $15 to $17 per kw during peak hour. If you are not careful, the demand charge can erode all your savings. Many people don't understand Demand and/or can't control it easily. If they do, this plan really works for them. I have Powerwalls. So, I consume almost NO electricity off the grid during peak hours, thus keeping my Demand near zero.

It IS an amazing deal. A steal really. Due to this rate, my solar + powerwall installed on a loan is cash flow positive.

Let me know if there are more questions.

Pretty nice. I don't believe SRP has anything like that APS rate plan. All but one of SRPs Solar plans also have high demand charges so SRP customers are in the same boat as far as potentially huge and escalating demand usage charges for any peak period power draws. I couldn't justify going solar with SRP until I could get Powerwalls to eliminate "all" peak period usage, "all" year long.

SRP does have a TOU Export plan, but their buy-back price is 0.0281 which is a significantly lower than any rate they sell to the customers either on-peak or off-peak. On the SRP TOU export plan the customer pays anywhere from 0.0738 for the very lowest winter off-peak rate all the way up to prices of 0.248 during summer peak - while SRP only buys back exported power the very low 0.0281 rate. All of these TOU off-peak rates that the customer pays are much higher than SRPs non-TOU export customer usage rates which are in the 3.5-4.7 range depending on season so it seems most people go that way unless they have very larger PV systems, probably optimized to the west for summer afternoon export during the 2-8pm peak.

It does look like SRP TOU export plan does not have a demand fees, where as the other plans most of us go with on SRP (those with the really cheap off-peak rates) do have peak demand charges. But when I modeled the usage numbers I couldn't make the payback as quick as with the non export Solar plans.

 

[Frankman60]

Can someone help me return to the simple Powerwall settings called Cost Savings that I have been using since the Powerwalls were installed 4 years ago? Since the Tesla app introduced the use of Utility Rates and no longer has a Cost Savings mode, I have not been able to get the Powerwalls to behave the way I want.

I only want to use the PWs to power my home every day from 4 to 9 PM during the peak utility period, and maintain a 50 percent reserve for grid outages. If solar energy is being produced during the Peak Period, I want to export it to the grid. After entering my utility rate plan information (SDG&E EVTOU5), it changed the PW behavior. Now, the PWs are powering my home after Peak ends at 9:00 PM, until the PWs drop to the 50 percent reserve setting. I want to start using grid power at 9 PM and have the PWs go into standby even if the current state of charge is more than the 50 percent reserve. Can someone please let me know what settings to enter into the app to get this to happen, like it did when using the legacy Cost Savings mode?

 

[aesculus]

Can someone help me return to the simple Powerwall settings called Cost Savings that I have been using since the Powerwalls were installed 4 years ago? Since the Tesla app introduced the use of Utility Rates and no longer has a Cost Savings mode, I have not been able to get the Powerwalls to behave the way I want.

I only want to use the PWs to power my home every day from 4 to 9 PM during the peak utility period, and maintain a 50 percent reserve for grid outages. If solar energy is being produced during the Peak Period, I want to export it to the grid. After entering my utility rate plan information (SDG&E EVTOU5), it changed the PW behavior. Now, the PWs are powering my home after Peak ends at 9:00 PM, until the PWs drop to the 50 percent reserve setting. I want to start using grid power at 9 PM and have the PWs go into standby even if the current state of charge is more than the 50 percent reserve. Can someone please let me know what settings to enter into the app to get this to happen, like it did when using the legacy Cost Savings mode?

I am not sure how I can tell you to achieve this but my system forced me to update to V4x a few weeks ago. It was on TBC (Cost Savings) before that as you described. After it updated it was set to TBC. I selected the rate plan that mirrored the same as before. All I had to do was update my costs (using same sell/buy costs in a given period). My reserve shows 50% and the Use for Time Based Control is highlighted. Not even sure how to change the reserve at this point.

I am on the PG&E Residential TOU EV (NEM 2) plan which there really is no such thing. I think I selected EVB (which was the same as EVA but a separate meter). They don't list the EVA plan but the rates and periods are the same so ...

Anyway my system still appears to work correctly. Today my peak period was from 3pm to 7pm and the PWs kicked in to supply grid power why all my solar went to the utility. Prior to that all my solar went to charging the PWs. They only got to 75% today at peak since it was mostly overcast. At 7pm when peak ended my PWs stopped discharging and I went back to using 100% grid power (no partial peak on Sat/Sun on this plan).

Yesterday I had partial peak periods and the PWs kicked on to supply the grid power at the normal time. But 30 minutes before the peak ended I hit my reserve so the PWs stopped supplying power and I had to use grid power for the 30 minutes. Looking back 7 days and all is as it should be with PWs supplying power only during peak and grid power either negative (early in the peak period during solar production) or flat.

So for me it appears everything still works like Cost Savings did before.

 

[JayClark]

Can someone help me return to the simple Powerwall settings called Cost Savings that I have been using since the Powerwalls were installed 4 years ago? Since the Tesla app introduced the use of Utility Rates and no longer has a Cost Savings mode, I have not been able to get the Powerwalls to behave the way I want.

I only want to use the PWs to power my home every day from 4 to 9 PM during the peak utility period, and maintain a 50 percent reserve for grid outages. If solar energy is being produced during the Peak Period, I want to export it to the grid. After entering my utility rate plan information (SDG&E EVTOU5), it changed the PW behavior. Now, the PWs are powering my home after Peak ends at 9:00 PM, until the PWs drop to the 50 percent reserve setting. I want to start using grid power at 9 PM and have the PWs go into standby even if the current state of charge is more than the 50 percent reserve. Can someone please let me know what settings to enter into the app to get this to happen, like it did when using the legacy Cost Savings mode?

I have noticed, specifically on Fridays and only Fridays, after my peak period ends (right now that is 8pm for my utility) the PW will keep powering the house loads even after my peak period ends (just like you describe) even while I'm well into my super off-peak period. It doesn't do this Monday-Thursday when the next day has a scheduled peak or mid-peak period.

To-date I've eliminated this behavior on Fridays by setting up a mid-peak with a low sell (0.04) and 0.00 buy period for Saturday and Sunday (even though my utility is all off-peak all weekend). I configure the weekend mid-peak to only last for a few (11am-2pm) hours during the saturday/sunday middle of the day peak solar production time frame for my PV system. I keep meaning to try reducing the weekend mid-peak to only 2 hours to see if it still works, but it turned out the 3 hour window worked pretty well. When I've configured like this the PW stops powering loads as expected at the end of my Friday peak period. I assume it's because it sees there is a peak period the next day it will have to cover. This may just work for me because I generally don't have very much load mid-day on the weekends so for the most part the PW doesn't get drawn down and usually ends up at 100%, it just gets there a little more slowly since it will power the house using solar first during that short weekend mid-peak period - but before and after that weekend mid-peak window all solar still goes charging and the PW doesn't get discharge.

I do agree this shouldn't be necessary, but at least in my case this is a pretty good workaround.

Good luck.

 

[Frankman60]

Thanks @JayClark and @aesculus. I thought I had figured out to get the PWs to behave the same way it did when the mode was Cost Savings. I created my own Custom rate plan with only two time periods; peak and off peak. Peak is defined as 4-9 pm every day, and everything else is off peak. I priced Peak at is actual buy price 42 cents, and sell at 42 cents. I priced off peak at 10 cents, with a sell price of 0 cents. I set the reserve at 80 percent so I could watch what happened when the PWs drained down to the reserve percentage. It seemed to work perfectly, at least for a while. The PWs never went below the 80 percent reserve, and seemed to power the house during peak. However, today I checked in during peak and saw that the house demand was being satisfied with both grid and PWs for at least 15 minutes. I have no idea why. The house demand was 4.4 kWs and about 1 kW was coming from the PWs and 3.4 kWs coming from the grid. Again, this was during peak when all of the power should have been coming from the PWs. How did this get to be so complicated? For me it would be better just to have a timer that switches on the PWs from 4-9 PM every day, and off all other times!

 

[MorrisonHiker]

Can someone help me return to the simple Powerwall settings called Cost Savings that I have been using since the Powerwalls were installed 4 years ago? Since the Tesla app introduced the use of Utility Rates and no longer has a Cost Savings mode, I have not been able to get the Powerwalls to behave the way I want.

I only want to use the PWs to power my home every day from 4 to 9 PM during the peak utility period, and maintain a 50 percent reserve for grid outages. If solar energy is being produced during the Peak Period, I want to export it to the grid. After entering my utility rate plan information (SDG&E EVTOU5), it changed the PW behavior. Now, the PWs are powering my home after Peak ends at 9:00 PM, until the PWs drop to the 50 percent reserve setting. I want to start using grid power at 9 PM and have the PWs go into standby even if the current state of charge is more than the 50 percent reserve. Can someone please let me know what settings to enter into the app to get this to happen, like it did when using the legacy Cost Savings mode?

If you install v3 of the mobile app and turn off auto-update, you can keep using that version. That will allow you to use the Time based Cost Savings or Balanced modes again.

I have v4 of the app installed on my phone but keep v3 of the app on a tablet. The other benefit of v3 is that it still has the useful graphs that allow you to instantly see certain trends which can't easily be seen in v4.

 

[skepticcyclist]

I have v4 of the app installed on my phone but keep v3 of the app on a tablet. The other benefit of v3 is that it still has the useful graphs that allow you to instantly see certain trends which can't easily be seen in v4.

That is why I keep v3 on my tablet as well (Also the fact that the tablet is so old that I cannot update the OS nor the APP to v4.) The graphs on the older version are much nicer. The option to overlay them all is something I wish they included in v4.

 

[Frankman60]

If you install v3 of the mobile app and turn off auto-update, you can keep using that version. That will allow you to use the Time based Cost Savings or Balanced modes again.

I have v4 of the app installed on my phone but keep v3 of the app on a tablet. The other benefit of v3 is that it still has the useful graphs that allow you to instantly see certain trends which can't easily be seen in v4.

Unfortunately all of my devices have already auto updated to V4. I didn’t think version V3 and V4 could coexist for the same Powerwalls if both versions were being used on different tablets? Because V3 and V4 have a different Settings, which version would the Powerwalls follow? I guess if you were only using V3 to view data and not change any of the settings that would work.

I decided to try using my utilities predefined rate plan again and waiting a week to see if it ”learns” over the week as Tesla suggests. One problem with the SDG&E EVTOU5 rate plan in the Tesla app is that the seasons are not correct. Because the plan offers a 2PM-4PM Super Off Peak period on weekdays ONLY during March and April, the Tesla app creates 3 seasons. But it really requires 4 seasons to be correct: Winter1 (Nov-Feb), Winter2 (Mar-Apr), Winter3 (May), Summer (June-Oct).

 

[MorrisonHiker]

Unfortunately all of my devices have already auto updated to V4. I didn’t think version V3 and V4 could coexist for the same Powerwalls if both versions were being used on different tablets? Because V3 and V4 have a different Settings, which version would the Powerwalls follow? I guess if you were only using V3 to view data and not change any of the settings that would work.

I decided to try using my utilities predefined rate plan again and waiting a week to see if it ”learns” over the week as Tesla suggests. One problem with the SDG&E EVTOU5 rate plan in the Tesla app is that the seasons are not correct. Because the plan offers a 2PM-4PM Super Off Peak period on weekdays ONLY during March and April, the Tesla app creates 3 seasons. But it really requires 4 seasons to be correct: Winter1 (Nov-Feb), Winter2 (Mar-Apr), Winter3 (May), Summer (June-Oct).

When v4 first came out, viewing the Powerwalls in the app would change the mode and I would have to go back and set it again in v3. For the past several weeks, that hasn't been the case. I'm able to view things in v3 or v4 and it still keeps the Time Based Control Balanced setting for my system. Last month, I turned Storm Watch on and off several times in v4 and it never changed my v3 operating mode.

 

[aesculus]

If you install v3 of the mobile app and turn off auto-update, you can keep using that version. That will allow you to use the Time based Cost Savings or Balanced modes again.

I had V3 set with no updates and a few weeks ago it would no longer connect. I had to update it to get it to work.

 

[Frankman60]

Well TBC isn’t doing what I want today. It is 1 hour into the Peak period at 5 PM and the PWs are in Standby and all the electricity is coming from the grid at 42 cents per kWh. I want the PWs to provide power to the house when Peak begins. When Peak began at 4 PM the solar energy was powering the house with the remainder going to the grid. I want all of the solar energy to go to the grid during Peak. Some people have said that what is entered for the Buy and Sell amounts can affect this, but I can’t find any documentation from Tesla about how the buy and sell amounts influence what the PWs do. Presently, the Buy and Sell amounts are the same for all three periods during the day. Does anyone have some advice about what to enter into the Sell and Buy fields to make this happen?

 

[JayClark]

Well TBC isn’t doing what I want today. It is 1 hour into the Peak period at 5 PM and the PWs are in Standby and all the electricity is coming from the grid at 42 cents per kWh. I want the PWs to provide power to the house when Peak begins. When Peak began at 4 PM the solar energy was powering the house with the remainder going to the grid. I want all of the solar energy to go to the grid during Peak. Some people have said that what is entered for the Buy and Sell amounts can affect this, but I can’t find any documentation from Tesla about how the buy and sell amounts influence what the PWs do. Presently, the Buy and Sell amounts are the same for all three periods during the day. Does anyone have some advice about what to enter into the Sell and Buy fields to make this happen?

I've tested this in many different ways and ensuring I have a zero (0.00) sell value stops the sending of solar back to the grid unless the PW is at 100% SOC. It basically tells the Powerwall there is no value in sending power to the grid. I've also tried it with 0.01 and it started sending power to the grid. That was one of my original findings when I started this thread.

 

[Frankman60]

I've tested this in many different ways and ensuring I have a zero (0.00) sell value stops the sending of solar back to the grid unless the PW is at 100% SOC. It basically tells the Powerwall there is no value in sending power to the grid. I've also tried it with 0.01 and it started sending power to the grid. That was one of my original findings when I started this thread.

Thanks @JayClark. Changing the sell rates to $0/Kwh for all periods except Peak resulted in the PWs powering the house during Peak as I wanted. However, when Peak ended at 9PM the PWs were still partially powering the house. The screenshot below is 10 minutes after Peak ended. The PWs continued to partially power the house until they drained down to the 75 percent reserve I set for testing. Previously when I was using the “Cost Savings” mode, after Peak ended the PWs would go into standby to preserve preserve the charge level, and begin powering the house from the grid. Is there a way to “trick” the PWs into doing this (similar to the $0/kWh trick)? I’m not sure why it should be necessary to trick the PWs to get it to behave like the legacy “Cost Savings“ mode Tesla.

 

[Redhill_qik]

Thanks @JayClark. Changing the sell rates to $0/Kwh for all periods except Peak resulted in the PWs powering the house during Peak as I wanted. However, when Peak ended at 9PM the PWs were still partially powering the house. The screenshot below is 10 minutes after Peak ended. The PWs continued to partially power the house until they drained down to the 75 percent reserve I set for testing. Previously when I was using the “Cost Savings” mode, after Peak ended the PWs would go into standby to preserve preserve the charge level, and begin powering the house from the grid. Is there a way to “trick” the PWs into doing this (similar to the $0/kWh trick)? I’m not sure why it should be necessary to trick the PWs to get it to behave like the legacy “Cost Savings“ mode Tesla.

View attachment 757956

I have the following pricing for my system that results in Powerwalls discharging to handle the house load during Peak with any solar going to the grid and during Off-Peak solar goes first to the house then to the Powerwall recharge and then to the grid.

Period​	Buy​	Sell​
Off-Peak​	$0.07​	$0.06​
Peak​	$0.10​	$0.09​

 

[aesculus]

However, when Peak ended at 9PM the PWs were still partially powering the house. The screenshot below is 10 minutes after Peak ended. The PWs continued to partially power the house until they drained down to the 75 percent reserve I set for testing.

This only happens to my system if coming up there is a big difference in the daily rate plan and then the PWs think they can maximize my return value.

i.e. Its Friday PM and the next day I only have a peak period (no partial peak) and the period is much shorter than the current day. I have not noticed a change in this to date but honestly it's been so cloudy the last several months this is the first week we really started to produce decent solar and never got close to our reserve.

 

[Frankman60]

By setting the sell rate to zero it encourages the PWs to not export power to the grid for that period. Conversely, if the buy rate is set to the lowest value (e.g. $.01/kwh) does that encourage the PWs to import power from the grid to power the home during that period, rather than using stored PW energy?

 

[Frankman60]

By setting the sell rate to zero it encourages the PWs to not export power to the grid for that period. Conversely, if the buy rate is set to the lowest value (e.g. $.01/kwh) does that encourage the PWs to import power from the grid to power the home during that period, rather than using stored PW energy?

Edit: I found that if the buy price is $.01/kWh the system still favors discharging to provide power to the house combined with solar energy, rather than directing all solar energy into charging the PWs and importing the energy at $.01/kwh. The app allowed me to enter a buy price of $0/kWh which surprised me, but that made a difference because the system is now directing all solar energy into charging a deeply discharged PW batteries. I understand that the “machine learning” in the system has determined that it can fully charge the PW batteries before Peak today at 4 PM and not import any energy from the grid. But I prefer to get the PW batteries charged first using inexpensive energy ($.10/kwh) because if it clouds up this afternoon they might not get charged enough to supply all of the power during Peak.

As I previously posted, I was using the legacy Cost Savings Mode and am now using the closest setting to that which is Time Based Control. The old Cost Savings mode did focus on only saving money. The Time Based Control seems to be a blend of Cost Savings and the legacy Balanced mode.