Tesla App Utility plan configuration: Multiple Peaks, Buy/Sell Behavior, etc

[AnthonyB]

Just got utility rate plan feature.
I'm in NSW, Australia.
Interestingly, it coincided with PW f/w v22.1.1
Using Android app v4.4.4-847

Given most NSW (Australian?) ToU energy plans have Summer, Winter, and an Autumn/Spring season plan, the current 3 seasons maximum doesn't work. At least i can't see a way to set it up for the full year as is? We need to be able to have 4 seasons, or, define multiple dates ranges for a single season to use it twice, e.g Autumn/Spring which has same rate plan.

Kinda annoying that the rates are all $/kWh rather than c/kWh. I'm sure it won't affect things much to have to round all rates up or down to 2 decimal places, but it's just unnecessary inaccuracy. It would've been neater if they'd just let us enter values to add many decimal places as we like so the utility rate plan matches EXACTLY.

 

[EngineerType]

Did you ever find a setting that got your Powerwalls to operate as described above?

Prior to last fall, our Powerwalls did operate in the manner described above, but about 3-4 weeks ago (and after coming out of Storm Watch), our Powerwall operation changed and stopped working like this. Now, during peak time (and even with an SOC of 100%), solar powers the house first and only sends the excess back to the grid. Previously, the Powerwalls used to power the house and all solar was sold back to the grid.

I'm not sure what fixed it - it wasn't a software update on the Powerwall - but is is working for me now they way I'd expect it to. I'm not sure if it was just "time to learn" or perhaps a server software change.
Off-peak: $0.10 / $0.10 Peak: $9.90 / $6.00

 

[Gdotp]

I noticed today that I was exporting to the grid even though the battery was not full. I’ve had set up the utility rate plan to have an off-peak buy price (0.05)and peak buy price (0.15) but NO export prices. However I suspect there is a bug as with this config the power wall WILL export. I’ve now put a peak/off-peak export price in of just a penny (0.01) and it’s now working as expected (I.e avoiding export at all cost).

 

[Bbailey81]

I may have missed this but did try and find a similar issue prior to posting.
I am going to start the Average Demand plan with SRP beginning next week. I’ve been monitoring usage leading up to this and noticed a trend.

My system operates as I want until around 5pm. We eat/cook dinner around 5:30. This is also peak time. Inevitably, I need to use either the air fryer, oven, or microwave. I don’t use any of these at the same time.

Solar is producing around 1kw around this time, PW is at 100%, and Home usage is 2.7kw. When one of those devices are on.

Rather than pull from PW, it takes from the grid…during peak. Why?

To add to this…if I use any of those appliances once the PW has begun discharging (also during peak) and no solar is being produced, it’s perfect. The PWs just put out more to cover the home usage.
No Demand.

How can I trick it? I just adjusted the buy/sell to be .10 and .01 respectively during peak.
Thanks!

 

[Bbailey81]

Added: PW reserve is low. I have usually 75%+ PW by morning.

 

[JayClark]

I may have missed this but did try and find a similar issue prior to posting.
I am going to start the Average Demand plan with SRP beginning next week. I’ve been monitoring usage leading up to this and noticed a trend.

My system operates as I want until around 5pm. We eat/cook dinner around 5:30. This is also peak time. Inevitably, I need to use either the air fryer, oven, or microwave. I don’t use any of these at the same time.

Solar is producing around 1kw around this time, PW is at 100%, and Home usage is 2.7kw. When one of those devices are on.

Rather than pull from PW, it takes from the grid…during peak. Why?

To add to this…if I use any of those appliances once the PW has begun discharging (also during peak) and no solar is being produced, it’s perfect. The PWs just put out more to cover the home usage.
No Demand.

How can I trick it? I just adjusted the buy/sell to be .10 and .01 respectively during peak.
Thanks!

We probably need a little more information. Maybe post your configuration settings, and a snapshot of flows that show what you're talking about - that is if the configuration has been in place for a couple days without edits. It can take a few days for the behavior to settle in as the system is "learning" by watching patterns of solar generation and home use based on your configured schedule. This can be true also after you make configuration changes, sometimes the behavior for a day or two can be wonky.

I've also observed when solar is producing, and in a state where it's bouncing between charging and pulling form the PW, along with a load source that "bounces" on & off (like an oven, clothes Dryer, or dishwasher dry cycle) you will notice the system leverage the grid to momentarily balance loads, often this will be followed by a quick "balancing" discharge back to the grid to "zero" out the momentary draw from the grid that was done. Both states can be disconcerting and look like behavior you don't want if you happen to glance at the flows right when this is occurring.

The funky thing about the phone app, is that it updates periodically (not every second), so sometimes it will show one of those states that isn't the same as what you'd see if you if you pulled up the local web interface to the gateway and observed the actual current state of your real time power flows. You can also look at your history from yesterday, and see if it pulled from the grid as much as you think you observed in the app when this occurred. If the system is newly setup then this could be happening for sure, but sometimes it's a little bit of an allusion if you're relying on the app only for real-time views of the flows at critical points.

 

[Bbailey81]

We probably need a little more information. Maybe post your configuration settings, and a snapshot of flows that show what you're talking about - that is if the configuration has been in place for a couple days without edits. It can take a few days for the behavior to settle in as the system is "learning" by watching patterns of solar generation and home use based on your configured schedule. This can be true also after you make configuration changes, sometimes the behavior for a day or two can be wonky.

I've also observed when solar is producing, and in a state where it's bouncing between charging and pulling form the PW, along with a load source that "bounces" on & off (like an oven, clothes Dryer, or dishwasher dry cycle) you will notice the system leverage the grid to momentarily balance loads, often this will be followed by a quick "balancing" discharge back to the grid to "zero" out the momentary draw from the grid that was done. Both states can be disconcerting and look like behavior you don't want if you happen to glance at the flows right when this is occurring.

The funky thing about the phone app, is that it updates periodically (not every second), so sometimes it will show one of those states that isn't the same as what you'd see if you if you pulled up the local web interface to the gateway and observed the actual current state of your real time power flows. You can also look at your history from yesterday, and see if it pulled from the grid as much as you think you observed in the app when this occurred. If the system is newly setup then this could be happening for sure, but sometimes it's a little bit of an allusion if you're relying on the app only for real-time views of the flows at critical points.

Thank you! The changes are recent since I’m starting the Average Demand on 2/16 and “preparing” for it now. Time will tell. I do think you are absolutely correct with seeing blips on the Tesla app that don’t ever appear on the SRP usage site. Question about that I guess…If SRP shows 0kw used during peak but Tesla app shows some pull during peak will SRP hit me with a fractional demand charge? If not, than I’m good to go! Thanks again!!

 

[Hexum944]

Having some weird behavior by my PWs. This is a new build, been running for about 2 weeks, just passed inspection but no paperwork has been submitted to SGIP or SoCal Edison yet. Per the contract I have to leave it on time based with a 40% reserve until I get my rebate. The app has only given me very limited access to the features. I can't select a pre-populated plan from Socal Edison, I can't enter the cost of electricity per time frame etc.

Today the PWs charged to 77% then exported the next few hours of solar production to the gird. I'm currently in my peak cost hours and the PWs are down to the 40% reserve so now I'm drawing very expensive electricity from the grid. Had the PWs charged to 100%, that would have gotten me to super off peak rates.

Why didn't the PWs charge to 100% then export rest of solar production to the grid?

 

[slazinger_7]

I'm not sure what fixed it - it wasn't a software update on the Powerwall - but is is working for me now they way I'd expect it to. I'm not sure if it was just "time to learn" or perhaps a server software change.
Off-peak: $0.10 / $0.10 Peak: $9.90 / $6.00

Tried this a week ago and still experiencing the same behavior (can't get the batteries to continue discharging during peak):

 

[JayClark]

Thank you! The changes are recent since I’m starting the Average Demand on 2/16 and “preparing” for it now. Time will tell. I do think you are absolutely correct with seeing blips on the Tesla app that don’t ever appear on the SRP usage site. Question about that I guess…If SRP shows 0kw used during peak but Tesla app shows some pull during peak will SRP hit me with a fractional demand charge? If not, than I’m good to go! Thanks again!!

If SRP shows 0kw, then your bill should reflect 0 for peak demand charges. SRP averages power draw over 30 minute periods which is also what most utilities do, I believe. As an example, a 1kW blip for one 5 minute period in the Tesla app, with all other 5 minute segments showing 0kw usage, on the SRP side over that 30 minute period should result in ~0.17kw draw for that 30 minute period (1kw divided by 6 5-minute segments). And that's only if the PW doesn't shoot back 1-2 kWh briefly to counter act that usage which it usually seems to do for our system, in which case SRP will show 0kw for that 30 minute period for charging purposes.

In addition, since you're on the averaging plan (which I also do) often even those blips get averaged down to zero for our home when divided by 29-30 other days with zero usage during peaks. About every 3rd month I end up 0.1-0.3 of of peak usage after all averaging. Usually it's because some dumb configuration change I made that didn't work they way I expected. Regardless, that usually results in less than $1-2 of peak demand charges when this does happen.

 

[JayClark]

Tried this a week ago and still experiencing the same behavior (can't get the batteries to continue discharging during peak):

It does seem like it should work as configured.

Even though this shouldn't be necessary, one thing to try is setting your offpeak to "super offpeak" (will show as blue) and also enter your buy costs as normal, but ZERO your SELL costs for that super off-peak period (0.0). Also, setting your PW reserve to 10% or lower initially. Leave your peak as it is. Let it sit for a few days with no config changes and see if it will disharge for the entire peak now. Also, before all of the above, you might want to (while your tweaking your configuration anyway) toggle your peak settings to off-peak, save it, and then toggle it back to Peak and save it again and reenter all costs, just in case somehow this got out of sync (because of a bug or something) somewhere.

If that works, then bump your reserve back to where you want and let it sit for a few days. If that also works, then try entering your sell costs back in for the super off-peak, etc.

 

[JayClark]

Having some weird behavior by my PWs. This is a new build, been running for about 2 weeks, just passed inspection but no paperwork has been submitted to SGIP or SoCal Edison yet. Per the contract I have to leave it on time based with a 40% reserve until I get my rebate. The app has only given me very limited access to the features. I can't select a pre-populated plan from Socal Edison, I can't enter the cost of electricity per time frame etc.

Today the PWs charged to 77% then exported the next few hours of solar production to the gird. I'm currently in my peak cost hours and the PWs are down to the 40% reserve so now I'm drawing very expensive electricity from the grid. Had the PWs charged to 100%, that would have gotten me to super off peak rates.

Why didn't the PWs charge to 100% then export rest of solar production to the grid?

We would need to see your configurations and energy usage charts to provide any useful help. If you attach them like slazinger_7 did showing your configurations and buy/sell costs, and also the 4 Energy usage charts with the Overlap toggle turned on (round chart symbol next to the "Day" - top right of app) somebody might be able to identify what's going on.

 

[burgjoh]

Can anyone tell why I can't enter the cost per kWh in Time based Control.? TBC worked well before I used this upgrade to the App. Now I have to use Self Powered.

 

[miimura]

Can anyone tell why I can't enter the cost per kWh in Time based Control.? TBC worked well before I used this upgrade to the App. Now I have to use Self Powered.

Your location says Australia. There was a thread here where an Australian user could not adjust their rate plan in the new app. It turned out that their participation in the VPP locked them out of those settings. I can't find the thread at the moment.

 

[keydiver]

I am hoping that someone can help me with new TBC settings. I ONLY want to use my Powerwalls for Backup ONLY (south Florida). I am on FPL, which doesn't do TOU, and because of the 10% efficiency loss I don't care to use self-consumption. I ONLY want the batteries to float at 85% charge for longevity. I used settings that I found last year here on TMC that worked great with the v3 app. I set it for TBC, set PEAK for 12 AM thru 11:30 PM, and OFF PEAK for 11:30 PM thru 12 AM. I set the Powerwall for 85% charge/reserve, and this all worked PERFECT!
But, now along came the v4 app. I made the BIG mistake of selecting my energy provider (FPL), thinking that would just help me see the dollar value of what I was selling back. But, instead it messed up my TBC/TOU settings, since FPL doesn't do that, and it has been keeping my Powerwalls at 100% charge. I have tried changing the settings to different BUY/SELL values, with limited success.
Any suggestions are VERY welcome. TIA.

 

[JayClark]

I am hoping that someone can help me with new TBC settings. I ONLY want to use my Powerwalls for Backup ONLY (south Florida). I am on FPL, which doesn't do TOU, and because of the 10% efficiency loss I don't care to use self-consumption. I ONLY want the batteries to float at 85% charge for longevity. I used settings that I found last year here on TMC that worked great with the v3 app. I set it for TBC, set PEAK for 12 AM thru 11:30 PM, and OFF PEAK for 11:30 PM thru 12 AM. I set the Powerwall for 85% charge/reserve, and this all worked PERFECT!
But, now along came the v4 app. I made the BIG mistake of selecting my energy provider (FPL), thinking that would just help me see the dollar value of what I was selling back. But, instead it messed up my TBC/TOU settings, since FPL doesn't do that, and it has been keeping my Powerwalls at 100% charge. I have tried changing the settings to different BUY/SELL values, with limited success.
Any suggestions are VERY welcome. TIA.

I think your setup should work but you might need to make sure you are using a "Peak" period from pre-sunrise to post-sunset (i.e. during your entire longest day of the year PV generation window). tweak your buy and sell values for that peak period. Try setting the TBC Peak Period cost values to Buy=1.25 and Sell=0.50 (regardless of what the utility costs actually are) while keeping your reserve at 85%. Also, I'd ensure sure your "off" peak period has a 0.00 sell value (and off-peak should only be during the hours there is no PV generation).

If this peak period covers all your PV generation hours it should tell the PW to use any SOC above 85% to power the house. It should also tell the system during that peak to sell back to the grid any extra PV generation that the house doesn't need (because of the sell value of 0.50) but it may only sell if this is defined as a "Peak" period and you have a sell value. I have tested this with Peak periods, but with other TBC types the behavior may not be the same, and this is exactly how it behaved for me with this "Peak" setup.

I actually do a variation of this on the weekends so that my PWs (4x) sit at ~50%, before resuming powering the house during my week-day peak periods.

Also remember after doing the setup changes to then leave it alone without changing configs for a few days to take effect. If you PWs are already at 100%, during the start of the next peak window period it should draw it down to your reserve level.

I'd be interested to hear if this makes a difference for you.

 

[slazinger_7]

So we finally got our system working after about 3 months of nonsensical back-and-forth with Tesla "support". It ended after we ran the issue up through Tesla legal instead and, once we got there, the system started working the next day. My guess is that there was a phone call from legal to someone in tech who changed some simple setting (that homeowners can't see) that caused the system to operate correctly again. There was no "learning" issue.

What a terrible hassle to get going again.

 

[JayClark]

So we finally got our system working after about 3 months of nonsensical back-and-forth with Tesla "support". It ended after we ran the issue up through Tesla legal instead and, once we got there, the system started working the next day. My guess is that there was a phone call from legal to someone in tech who changed some simple setting (that homeowners can't see) that caused the system to operate correctly again. There was no "learning" issue.

What a terrible hassle to get going again.

Glad to hear it's finally working for you. Tesla definitely has a blackhole service/support situation when "anything" goes wrong during initial systems startup. I had a fairly simple straight forward PV inverter failure after only a few days of initial operation, and it took a couple months to resolve because of what appeared to me to be complete failure of internal communications and processes in their energy support groups. And up until the night before, or maybe if the very morning, that the guy shows up to replace the inverter there was zero indication anybody cared or was moving the fix forward.

Thankfully now almost 3 years later it's been fairly smooth sailing and it's saved me tons of money. Including the electric car gas savings, we're on track to payoff the system in about 4.5 years, maybe less if gas keeps going up. So have to admit I'm glad we struggled through the issues now that I have some space between me and that situation. No other system I can find, still, could have had that type of payoff that could also keep the house running cool and smooth during our long hot Arizona summers with sometimes 15+ hours of near constant AC usage.

 

[aesculus]

I have said it before and will repeat it again. To protect yourself get to know your onsite project manager (who is responsible for your installation but might only show up one time). Get his cell number and make sure you communicate often with him/her to develop repour. Then if/when something goes wrong within the first few months you will have an inside advocate to help you. I had to use this technique myself when the normal channels were getting nowhere.

I hate to imagine what would or not would have happened without this "unofficial" support. In my case I had a somewhat weird characteristic that was overlooked or not fully understood. My PM did not know how to solve the issue but knew people would could, and stayed with me until it was resolved.

 

[slazinger_7]

Over the last two years, Tesla sent out at least five different teams from two different offices, and we had three different sub-contractors on top of that. We didn't have a single onsite project manager. Each time a new crew would come out, no one knew anything about the project and we spent half the first day educating them about the prior blunders. This project has literally taken hundreds of hours on our part chasing Tesla to get things fixed and running correctly. This project was a monumental waste of time and we have been absolutely shocked at the complete disorganization of such a well known company.

We are not alone in our struggles, some of our neighbors are turning in leases and not renewing after having major issues on the car side as well. We were very excited early adopters, but it's safe to say at this point that we'll never buy anything from Tesla ever again.

@JayClark - glad to hear you got your solar installed and that everything is running smooth. We are in the process of adding a second solar system (adding 9.6 kW to a 4.4 kW system) since our usage went up so much with our electric cars usage. Tesla was $2.21/watt compared to another solar company who came in at $2.55/watt. Needless to say we didn't go with Tesla, and the added $2,500 (after taxes) will be well worth it if we don't run into half the issues we have had with Tesla.