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Tesla app version 4.0.0 has app re design for both car and energy

MorrisonHiker

Well-Known Member
Moderator
Mar 8, 2015
10,582
10,650
Colorado
@MorrisonHiker what version of the firmware do you have? On 21.35.0 we had the 3.x app giving errors and so had to update to the hideous v4
It looks like it ours was recently upgraded to 21.35.3. I still use the 3.x app on an old tablet since it allows Balanced Time Based control and energy graphs that are actually useful.

I do have 4.2.3 on my phone but have to be sure never to view the Powerwalls or it will change the mode.
 

MorrisonHiker

Well-Known Member
Moderator
Mar 8, 2015
10,582
10,650
Colorado
I assume you keep 4.2.3 on your phone for Model 3/Y? Do you think 4.x is better than 3.x for cars? I am still holding on to 3.x for balance mode.
I do have 4.2.3 on my phone for the Model S and Model S Plaid. The app is sometimes slower to connect to vehicles but when it works, there's some new functionality, such as being able to change charging amps and setting the scheduled charge time. Android doesn't have it yet but they also recently added the ability for iOS phones to view sentry cameras remotely so I'm sure Android will have it eventually.
 
It's quite a big interface/graphical update. I like the old simpler power distribution animation better.

View attachment 701439
If you want the old animation back use the 'Autarkie Manager' App (iOS) only. I comes with variable charging of your Tesla car as well, depending on the solar production.
 

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I do have 4.2.3 on my phone for the Model S and Model S Plaid. The app is sometimes slower to connect to vehicles but when it works, there's some new functionality, such as being able to change charging amps and setting the scheduled charge time. Android doesn't have it yet but they also recently added the ability for iOS phones to view sentry cameras remotely so I'm sure Android will have it eventually.
I have the latest 4.2.3 and 2021.40 on my M3 as well as a USB drive for Sentry Mode but I can't view anything in the App. Is there anything else which needs to be configured in the app/car?
 

jjrandorin

Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums
Moderator
Nov 28, 2018
14,653
18,765
Riverside Co. CA
I have the latest 4.2.3 and 2021.40 on my M3 as well as a USB drive for Sentry Mode but I can't view anything in the App. Is there anything else which needs to be configured in the app/car?

yes, you have to have a specific firmware version in the car 2021.36.8 I believe, although I dont have that version as of yet so I dont have that feature). You also have to be using iOS, as far as I know.

 
I assume you keep 4.2.3 on your phone for Model 3/Y? Do you think 4.x is better than 3.x for cars? I am still holding on to 3.x for balance mode.
Like many here I also want to have the Balanced mode back. I have been playing with the new utility pricing and have been able to nearly replicate the Balanced mode through "human learning".

I am on the PG&E + CCA E-TOU-C plan which just has Peak and Off-Peak periods and I am also a net generator. I want my system to do the following.
  1. Maximize exports during Peak by discharging Powerwalls with all solar going to the grid
  2. Do not discharge Powerwalls during Off-Peak
  3. Minimize imports while charging Powerwalls from solar by prioritizing house first than Powerwall
  4. Powerwalls are at 100% before Peak
I have set my Utility Pricing to the following and it getting me what I want.
  • Off-Peak
    • Buy Price = $0.07 / kWh
    • Sell Price = $0.06 / kWh
  • Peak
    • Buy Price = $0.10 / kWh
    • Sell Price = $0.09 / kWh
As you can see, as the sun comes up it starts going to the house first, then the Powerwall, and then to the grid when the Powerwall is fully to goes to the grid. Once Peak starts at 4:00pm the Powerwall discharges until the end of Peak at 9:00pm and then it goes to standby.

1636393608840.png


So, why these values? Both Buy and Sell Off-Peak prices are below the Peak Sell price, so the "machine learning" won't think that it makes sense to discharge the Powerwall during Off-Peak. The difference between the Buy and Sell prices is more than 10% so that the "machine learning" to won't take into consideration the 90% round trip efficiency.

For the Tesla developers that occasionally read these forums, please just give us explicit control functionality by period to prioritize Powerwall charge and discharge behavior so we don't have to reverse engineer around what your "machine learning" algorithms are doing as they simply do not have the information necessary to know if they are doing a good job or not.
 

h2ofun

Active Member
Aug 11, 2020
3,702
893
auburn, ca
Like many here I also want to have the Balanced mode back. I have been playing with the new utility pricing and have been able to nearly replicate the Balanced mode through "human learning".

I am on the PG&E + CCA E-TOU-C plan which just has Peak and Off-Peak periods and I am also a net generator. I want my system to do the following.
  1. Maximize exports during Peak by discharging Powerwalls with all solar going to the grid
  2. Do not discharge Powerwalls during Off-Peak
  3. Minimize imports while charging Powerwalls from solar by prioritizing house first than Powerwall
  4. Powerwalls are at 100% before Peak
I have set my Utility Pricing to the following and it getting me what I want.
  • Off-Peak
    • Buy Price = $0.07 / kWh
    • Sell Price = $0.06 / kWh
  • Peak
    • Buy Price = $0.10 / kWh
    • Sell Price = $0.09 / kWh
As you can see, as the sun comes up it starts going to the house first, then the Powerwall, and then to the grid when the Powerwall is fully to goes to the grid. Once Peak starts at 4:00pm the Powerwall discharges until the end of Peak at 9:00pm and then it goes to standby.

View attachment 730696

So, why these values? Both Buy and Sell Off-Peak prices are below the Peak Sell price, so the "machine learning" won't think that it makes sense to discharge the Powerwall during Off-Peak. The difference between the Buy and Sell prices is more than 10% so that the "machine learning" to won't take into consideration the 90% round trip efficiency.

For the Tesla developers that occasionally read these forums, please just give us explicit control functionality by period to prioritize Powerwall charge and discharge behavior so we don't have to reverse engineer around what your "machine learning" algorithms are doing as they simply do not have the information necessary to know if they are doing a good job or not.
I am still on balanced. My goal is to use as little PGE as possible. This means I set my peak from 4pm to 1am. But, depending on my use, the batteries will still be used even after 1am in off peak. Now I did raise my reserve from 10% to 50% since as the storm roll in, ability to recharge the batteries goes down. And as it gets colder, my heat pumps are starting to use suds. My PGE daily bill has started to go from credit to charge, since I cannot get enough solar all the time to cover use.
 
I am still on balanced. My goal is to use as little PGE as possible. This means I set my peak from 4pm to 1am. But, depending on my use, the batteries will still be used even after 1am in off peak. Now I did raise my reserve from 10% to 50% since as the storm roll in, ability to recharge the batteries goes down. And as it gets colder, my heat pumps are starting to use suds. My PGE daily bill has started to go from credit to charge, since I cannot get enough solar all the time to cover use.
If your goal is to use as little PG&E as possible then why aren't you using the Self Powered mode?
 

MorrisonHiker

Well-Known Member
Moderator
Mar 8, 2015
10,582
10,650
Colorado
If your goal is to use as little PG&E as possible then why aren't you using the Self Powered mode?
If I just set it to self-powered, there's a chance the batteries would be drained before peak period. If Tesla offered a scheduled self-powered mode, we would use it. They don't, so I continue to use the balanced time based control method to guarantee peak is self-powered and part-peak is usually self-powered. We are "self-powered" for over 22 hours a day by using the balanced time based setting.
 

h2ofun

Active Member
Aug 11, 2020
3,702
893
auburn, ca
If I just set it to self-powered, there's a chance the batteries would be drained before peak period. If Tesla offered a scheduled self-powered mode, we would use it. They don't, so I continue to use the balanced time based control method to guarantee peak is self-powered and part-peak is usually self-powered. We are "self-powered" for over 22 hours a day by using the balanced time based setting.
Yep, that is what is working perfect for me also. I want to see as little PGE use but have the batteries always attempt to be charged to 100% before peak starts
 
The difference between the Buy and Sell prices is more than 10% so that the "machine learning" to won't take into consideration the 90% round trip efficiency.

Does the new algorithm really take this into account or are you just protecting yourself just in case? I ask as don't think it does today as battery will discharge battery during off peak periods if it thinks it can but this does just waste 10% on inefficiency....
 
Does the new algorithm really take this into account or are you just protecting yourself just in case? I ask as don't think it does today as battery will discharge battery during off peak periods if it thinks it can but this does just waste 10% on inefficiency....
I have no idea if it does or not as the decisions that are being made are opaque, so this is just my best guess

Using the built in PGE+SVCE E-TOU-C pricing numbers the Buy and Sell prices were the same and there was less than a 10% difference in Peak vs Off-Peak pricing for Winter. This resulted in the Powerwalls just staying in Standby mode for me with solar going to the house and the excess to the grid. Another pricing mode that I used that had a very big difference between the Peak and Off-Peak and the Buy vs Sell resulted in the Powerwalls continuing to discharge after Peak ended which was very strange.

We shouldn't have to guess as to what is going to happen based on pricing differences. We need to be able to control the discharge/charge behavior explicitly.
 
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Gwgan

Almost a wagon
Aug 11, 2013
3,131
2,485
Maine
Just checked how battery was doing after the evening peak and utility rate plans are there!
Still 25.35.1, no recent change.

Would it make sense to have a super off-peak period for the time I usually charge the car to avoid discharging the battery during that time?
 
Like many here I also want to have the Balanced mode back. I have been playing with the new utility pricing and have been able to nearly replicate the Balanced mode through "human learning".

I am on the PG&E + CCA E-TOU-C plan which just has Peak and Off-Peak periods and I am also a net generator. I want my system to do the following.
  1. Maximize exports during Peak by discharging Powerwalls with all solar going to the grid
  2. Do not discharge Powerwalls during Off-Peak
  3. Minimize imports while charging Powerwalls from solar by prioritizing house first than Powerwall
  4. Powerwalls are at 100% before Peak
I have set my Utility Pricing to the following and it getting me what I want.
  • Off-Peak
    • Buy Price = $0.07 / kWh
    • Sell Price = $0.06 / kWh
  • Peak
    • Buy Price = $0.10 / kWh
    • Sell Price = $0.09 / kWh
As you can see, as the sun comes up it starts going to the house first, then the Powerwall, and then to the grid when the Powerwall is fully to goes to the grid. Once Peak starts at 4:00pm the Powerwall discharges until the end of Peak at 9:00pm and then it goes to standby.

View attachment 730696

So, why these values? Both Buy and Sell Off-Peak prices are below the Peak Sell price, so the "machine learning" won't think that it makes sense to discharge the Powerwall during Off-Peak. The difference between the Buy and Sell prices is more than 10% so that the "machine learning" to won't take into consideration the 90% round trip efficiency.

For the Tesla developers that occasionally read these forums, please just give us explicit control functionality by period to prioritize Powerwall charge and discharge behavior so we don't have to reverse engineer around what your "machine learning" algorithms are doing as they simply do not have the information necessary to know if they are doing a good job or not.
Before figuring out the buy/sell values you detailed, were you by any chance seeing solar during peak go to house rather than to grid and/or house drawing from grid in addition to powerwall during peak and/or powerwall discharging in the middle of the night during off peak?
 
Before figuring out the buy/sell values you detailed, were you by any chance seeing solar during peak go to house rather than to grid and/or house drawing from grid in addition to powerwall during peak and/or powerwall discharging in the middle of the night during off peak?

If the Powerwall is not discharging then it is impossible for Solar to not go to the house first. If Solar exceeds the house load then the excess goes to the Grid if it less than the house load the Grid supplies the rest. I have two Powerwalls and the 10KW that they can provide exceeds anything my house is using. I did have conditions were the Powerwall just stayed in Standby at 100% and another where the Powerwall continued to discharge after the Peak period ended.

I found that original Balanced mode would also discharge during Off-Peak, but it would do this sometime after midnight and more commonly in the 2-3 hours before sunrise. I did not want this to happen, so I at the end of Peak (9:00pm for me) I would go into the app and change my reserve level to the current level to prevent it from discharging and then around noon the next day I would lower the reserve level back to 40% for the Peak period.
 
the reason i asked is i saw a change in behavior of the new TBC mode a few weeks after its release. when the new TBC mode came out with app version 4 (and balanced mode was eliminated), my PWs behaved as follows: 1) during peak, house was powered exclusively by PW; 2) ALL solar produced during peak went to grid (assumedly to max out NEM credits); 3) house never drew any power from grid during peak; and 4) PW never discharged off peak.

my system behaved this way for several weeks, following which its behavior changed as follows, and it continues to this day: 1) PW is still discharging during peak, but house is also drawing small amounts of grid power in addition (the house is not drawing any large loads that would come anywhere near exceeding the max power of the PWs); 2) solar produced during peak is going to house first (in addition to PW), and only excess is going to grid; 3) PW stops discharging once peak ends, but then discharges again in the middle of the night, sometimes for a few hours starting at 2-3 am, sometimes for the hour or two before sunrise.

just curious if you or anyone else is seeing this behavior and if so whether playing around with the pricing mitigated this strange behavior, or if there's some issue specifically with my system
 
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If the Powerwall is not discharging then it is impossible for Solar to not go to the house first. If Solar exceeds the house load then the excess goes to the Grid if it less than the house load the Grid supplies the rest. I have two Powerwalls and the 10KW that they can provide exceeds anything my house is using.
Are you saying it is a physical constraint not to be able to prioritize solar generation to the house and the excess to the grid if the Powerwall is not discharging, or is it a software constraint?
 

aesculus

Still Trying to Figure This All Out
May 31, 2015
4,826
2,780
Northern California
the reason i asked is i saw a change in behavior of the new TBC mode a few weeks after its release. when the new TBC mode came out with app version 4 (and balanced mode was eliminated), my PWs behaved as follows: 1) during peak, house was powered exclusively by PW; 2) ALL solar produced during peak went to grid (assumedly to max out NEM credits); 3) house never drew any power from grid during peak; and 4) PW never discharged off peak.

my system behaved this way for several weeks, following which its behavior changed as follows, and it continues to this day: 1) PW is still discharging during peak, but house is also drawing small amounts of grid power in addition (the house is not drawing any large loads that would come anywhere near exceeding the max power of the PWs); 2) solar produced during peak is going to house first (in addition to PW), and only excess is going to grid; 3) PW stops discharging once peak ends, but then discharges again in the middle of the night, sometimes for a few hours starting at 2-3 am, sometimes for the hour or two before sunrise.

just curious if you or anyone else is seeing this behavior and if so whether playing around with the pricing mitigated this strange behavior, or if there's some issue specifically with my system
Wow. This is terrible. Now I am wondering if it's a display issue or actually logic. My guess is that the app just informs the Tesla servers what your desire is and they in turn direct the Gateway (PWs) to perform accordingly.

So they either have two separate back end applications based on what client you are on or all of our systems (v3 and V4) are behaving the same way, we just see if differently.

Can you go out to your meter next time you think you have grid load when you shouldn't and verify what the meter says vs what the Tesla app says? That would at least give you one point of reference.
 
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