TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker and becoming a Supporting Member. For more info: Support TMC

Tesla autopilot HW3

Discussion in 'Autopilot & Autonomous/FSD' started by verygreen, Jan 4, 2019.

  1. run-the-joules

    run-the-joules Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2017
    Messages:
    2,665
    Location:
    SF Bay
    and rightly so. That's what we were promised, after all.
     
    • Like x 2
  2. tomc603

    tomc603 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2017
    Messages:
    731
    Location:
    NH, US
    You can pay for an upgrade even if you don't have FSD. That was one of the perks of buying FSD- "free" access to hardware upgrade.

    Seems probable.

    You only have to take the glove box apart, there are already a dozen videos on youtube of how to get access to the computer.

    Oh, you didn't hear? Now every FSD owner is an early access member. :rolleyes::D

    It literally is Texas. They're not allowed to sell you a car in one of their galleries in Texas, because Texas bends to the whims of the dealership association. They can't even discuss pricing with you. Texas and Connecticut are the only two states in the US where direct sales are illegal. Why It’s Hard To Buy A Tesla In Texas | Texas Standard Any time you find yourself in the company of Connecticut when it comes to government corruption, you've made a grave mistake.

    Even better, this year saw legislation proposed to make it illegal for Tesla to service their cars in Texas. Thankfully, from what I remember, the legislation didn't pass. But not for lack of trying. If Texas lawmakers get their way, Tesla won’t be able to fix its own cars

    Texas is absurd.
     
    • Like x 1
  3. NHK X

    NHK X Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2017
    Messages:
    405
    Location:
    PNW

    Yeah, I totally understand that about Texas. I’ve been following closely. What I am saying is that the issues I had with customer service didn’t have to do with what you mentioned.

    Overall, the system is overloaded. On the customer end you feel it more especially where I live as it is covered by the broader Texas mobile service division. Poor communication, had appt cancelled twice less than two days before the appt as correct parts weren’t ordered ect. It’s all stuff that isn’t specific to Texas but felt more as there is no phone contact for my service lite center and email communication is sparse. All growing pains that will improve.
     
  4. dgatwood

    dgatwood Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2017
    Messages:
    483
    Location:
    Sunnyvale, ca
    There are two broad categories of patent that you could be talking about: The vague, generic "on a computer" type patents, which are usually overturned, and the specific ones that precisely describe a method for doing so, which are usually easily worked around as long as you are aware of them. I very much doubt that patents are what is preventing that from happening. Lack of adequate processing power, lack of adequate engineers to work on the feature, etc. are far more plausible.
     
  5. electronblue

    electronblue Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2018
    Messages:
    2,073
    Location:
    Earth
    I am already seeing the rhetoric that HW3 update priority doesn’t matter! No feature is using it yet. Yes, just like AP2.5 was just ”AP2.1” and there was no diffence... one day it will be different and where will we be then?

    There will very likely be people without FSD retrofits (through no fault of their own) once features making use of it start appearing, so there is a genuine reason to ask pre-emptiveness from Tesla. If we don’t, one day the updates start coming and we’re still without.

    So, how about it Tesla, we know you are reading. Start with AP2s, right? We’ve waited the longest, in many cases paid more and were promised the most — with the most promises broken to boot.

    We’re a limited number. Easy to do the right thing here.
     
    • Like x 3
    • Love x 1
  6. Saghost

    Saghost Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2013
    Messages:
    7,479
    Location:
    Delaware
    Tesla changed a bunch of sensors for AP2.5 from AP2 - and to the best of our knowledge, didn't change them from the AP2.5 version for AP3.

    That means the AP3 swap on a 2.5 should be a straight computer swap, while the AP2 version will either need new sensors too or the code will have to be changed to handle the sensor differences.

    Not disagreeing about the right thing, but it seems like the AP2.5 retrofit is significantly easier from a technical or logistics standpoint (depending on which way they go.)
     
  7. NHK X

    NHK X Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2017
    Messages:
    405
    Location:
    PNW
    Even as a HW2.5 owner, agree that priority should go to the ones who have waited the longest. But wouldn’t be surprised if Tesla does things to have a more representative sample in terms of software development. Best of luck, hope you are one of the early lottery winners!
     
  8. conman

    conman Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2017
    Messages:
    1,248
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    I'm with you too, I was an "investomer" in FSD with AP2 hardware. Realistically, I don't think we stand a snowball's chance in hell of being first, unfortunately, which I'm sure you know as well. Add to that the delays of being in a non-North American country and HW3 upgrades for V10 for (yet more promises of) FSD features that don't exist and it makes me wonder if I'll ever see anything at all for my early FSD prepayment for the life of my vehicle. Our autopilot features are over a year behind now so where does that leave us for FSD?
     
  9. timewasted

    timewasted Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2017
    Messages:
    127
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV
    The only fair way to handle scheduling for AP3 upgrades is:

    Code:
    SELECT * FROM vehicles WHERE opt_fsd=1 ORDER BY opt_fsd_purchased_at ASC
    Unfortunately, I fully expect their query to actually be:

    Code:
    SELECT * FROM vehicles WHERE opt_fsd=1 AND ap_hw_rev>2 ORDER BY celebrity_status DESC, opt_fsd_purchased_at DESC
    I hope Elon can prove me wrong on this, but I’m not going to hold my breath.
     
    • Funny x 3
  10. Bet TSLA

    Bet TSLA Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2014
    Messages:
    1,785
    Location:
    Cupertino, CA
    The early upgrades will obviously be scheduled to provide a variety of configurations (so Tesla can size the effort and adjust for any problems they run into) and be for people who are unlikely to whine and complain if there are any problems. Once they've got the process down, they'll go wide and I don't think it will matter much what order they go in.

    But inevitably, those fairly early in the queue will, once it is discovered that Tesla improved something from their experience and the later ones are "better", will whine and complain some more. This is so predictable.
     
    • Like x 1
  11. GlennH

    GlennH Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2018
    Messages:
    17
    Location:
    Arlington, VA
     
  12. GlennH

    GlennH Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2018
    Messages:
    17
    Location:
    Arlington, VA
    Hmmm -- Does Texas have a big interest in consumption of oil and gasoline or something? ;-)
     
    • Like x 2
  13. EVNow

    EVNow Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2009
    Messages:
    7,151
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    You know table names should be singular, right ?

    While saying what is and isn’t fair is fair, Tesla has to consider other things like cost and reliability before scheduling the upgrades.
     
  14. azred

    azred Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2016
    Messages:
    1,628
    Location:
    Chandler, AZ
    While I have two Teslas needing the HW3 upgrade, I am not sure why anyone is that worried about getting the upgrade anytime soon.. Does anyone seriously believe Tesla will be able to flawlessly handle stoplights and various signage anytime in the next two years? Heck, my cars still go crazy when two lanes merge and that is surely child’s play compared to handling stoplights and signage. And unlike the lane merger problem that can be easily managed by taking control, how will failure to stop at a stoplight or blowing through a stop sign or yield sign work out? I use autopilot a lot and view it as a 15 year old beginning driver. It has great vision and reflexes, but requires adult supervision. The various quirks on freeways happen slowly enough to manage as long as I am paying attention but that all changes with FSD on the streets.
     
    • Like x 1
    • Disagree x 1
  15. Matias

    Matias Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2014
    Messages:
    2,951
    Location:
    Finland
    AP1 has a processing power of a potato and it does it.
     
  16. electronblue

    electronblue Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2018
    Messages:
    2,073
    Location:
    Earth
    Of course that is likely, but I expressed what I think would be right — and while the group 1 roll-out has apparently started with AP 2.5 in limited fashion, there is still time for Tesla to make sure AP2 is first in any volume roll-out.
     
  17. electronblue

    electronblue Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2018
    Messages:
    2,073
    Location:
    Earth
    #2057 electronblue, Sep 14, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2019
    I would have to say, AP2 FSD buyers from 2016 can ”whine” quite a lot before an objective observer would find it unreasonable. It really was a bad play from Tesla and now is their chance to make some of it right. They should. AP2 cars are limited in number, that is not an issue either.

    I don’t even care about my personal car. 90% of AP2 done first would suffice as a good move even if they skip mine and a few others for whatever reason for a later date. I would give credit for that. Make a genuine effort.
     
    • Like x 5
  18. Octo

    Octo Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2019
    Messages:
    387
    Location:
    Dallas
    If Tesla has your attitude towards their customers (“whiners”) who spent around $6000 on vapor (so far), I would not bet on TSLA.
     
    • Like x 1
  19. timewasted

    timewasted Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2017
    Messages:
    127
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV
    I’m sure there are customer tables to join in as well.

    Didn’t Tesla talk about how many years AP3 has been in development during their autonomy day presentation? There was a leaked e-mail just a couple weeks shy of a year ago talking about wanting to get employees running AP3 so they could start collecting data from the cars, so internal testing has been happening for roughly a year now. AP3 has also been shipping in new customer vehicles for 3-4 months at this point. They’re even taking to surprising random customers with the upgrade during a service visit.

    This is all a very long-winded way of saying that the time to consider “cost and reliability” has long since passed, since that’s something that you do before you start rolling it out to customers.

    Also, the rollout of this to customers is honestly a super easy logistical problem. I’ve posted this before, but it’s worth repeating. Tesla has a record of every car sold, the date it was purchased, all the options, and probably the date those options were purchased. Tesla also knows the locations that the cars call home, so they know the closest service center. They know how long the retrofit will take, and they know the general service load of each service center. Tesla is also capable of sending an e-mail blast to their customers with a simple “I’d prefer my upgrade sooner”/“I’ll wait a little while” form to gauge interest in the retrofits.

    Given all of that, it is super easy to send each service center enough AP3 kits to handle a week’s worth of retrofits each and every week until that service center has cleared their backlogs. They should, as an established car company, already have all these logistical pipelines in place.

    Anything less than this is, in my eyes, another failure by Tesla.
     
    • Like x 4
  20. Holo

    Holo Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2018
    Messages:
    96
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    I agree completely. I have a 2018 MS and I use AP all the time. In my case I have described its behavior as a 16 year old on a learner's permit. Probably reflects my state's age requirements to obtain a permit.
     

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.
  • Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


    SUPPORT TMC