Tesla backing away from "Phone Key as primary key"

[AustinPowers]

Seems a bit dramatic, don't you think? I suspect this is perhaps not the real reason for your cancellation (or not the only one). It would be crazy if one's car buying decision is solely predicated on such a non material nit.

Except it isn't a non material nit.
If you don't have a smartphone,
or not the right smartphone,
or the wrong software,
or the wrong settings,
or the wrong situation,
or ....
It has the potential to become an annoyance every single smegging time you want to use your car.
You call that a non material nit? Suit yourself.

Sometimes technology just needs to advance.

Yes, and sometimes it doesn't.

 

[trm2]

...
Now are you seriously telling me that you don't understand that there are loads of people who are put off by that prospect and who think Tesla acted idiotically by cheaping out of providing a fob? ...

Because that's the really annoying thing - it is not that Tesla is forward thinking in only providing the app.
It is simply cost-cutting at its worst. No other way to put it.

I'm one of the people put off by no fob, but cost-cutting was not the reason they didn't go with a fob. Tesla designed the Model 3 to be a car-sharing vehicle. The the Tesla Network customer will not have a fob for every car they may end up using, using a phone fixes that problem. Tesla was forward thinking on this, thinking of a vehicle as a transportation appliance, not as a car in the way most of us do.

 

[svp6]

No problems with either of our iPhones for the first 5 months of ownership. Agree that it is inconvenient for those who have issues. At the same time, I would imagine that within 6-12 months they will come up with a solution that covers vast majority of phones, so all this will be a thing of the past. Much like the chatter about AP2 being worse than AP1 for the first 1-2 years post release. I certainly don't hear much about it anymore, and for us the M3 AP2 is most certainly better than our previous P85D AP1.

 

[AustinPowers]

Yeah, I’m lying. That’s it. Because I have everything to gain right? I’m 10-15 feet away from my Infiniti right now, it just took me 3 clicks before the door locked. Want me to video it for you?

I have no reason to call you a liar, but I have to wonder why you don't get your broken fob repaired or replaced, because quite obviously that Infiniti fob is broken.
Like I said, I have driven many cars over the last quarter century, and like with @rdlink not once, not even a single time, did a fob fail on me. Though I must admit I have never driven an Infiniti yet. But cars from VW, BMW, Audi, Merc, Opel, Ford (Europe), Citroen, Renault, Peugeot, Porsche, Skoda, Hyundai, Tesla and Ford (USA).

 

[dusdev]

Question to people who have the car. I was thinking about my use case today and wonder how the Model 3 will deal with it. I live in a very safe neighborhood and I park my car in my attached private garage. With my current vehicle I have no requirement or desire to lock the vehicle while its parked at my house. I simply park and get out/back in as I need to. Also with the car in the garage I'm often coming/going into the car without a key or fob throughout the day if I need to to get things or put things in the vehicle.

So, the question is how will the Model 3 deal with this. Basically, I don't want the car to be locked at all when I'm parked in my garage. Oh, I should mention my current vehicle has a little lock button on the door handle. So if I don't press the button, it doesn't lock. The wireless key fob stays in my pocket or bag to start the car.

 

[AustinPowers]

I'm one of the people put off by no fob, but cost-cutting was not the reason they didn't go with a fob. Tesla designed the Model 3 to be a car-sharing vehicle. The the Tesla Network customer will not have a fob for every car they may end up using, using a phone fixes that problem. Tesla was forward thinking on this, thinking of a vehicle as a transportation appliance, not as a car in the way most of us do.

That's as maybe, but that future is not here yet. People in general, some exceptions notwithstanding, still buy a car for themselves or their family. Nice to know that the Model 3 will work for the sharing economy someday, but for now, Tesla should have designed the car for the average user, not the exception to the rule.

 

[andremc]

I have no reason to call you a liar, but I have to wonder why you don't get your broken fob repaired or replaced, because quite obviously that Infiniti fob is broken.
Like I said, I have driven many cars over the last quarter century, and like with @rdlink not once, not even a single time, did a fob fail on me. Though I must admit I have never driven an Infiniti yet. But cars from VW, BMW, Audi, Merc, Opel, Ford (Europe), Citroen, Renault, Peugeot, Porsche, Skoda, Hyundai, Tesla and Ford (USA).

The primary reason is because it works most of the time. When it does fail, I try again, bang it on my leg, or take the tiny key out and go about my business. It’s not a hassle. Maybe a 20 second delay. Plus, the dealership will charge $150 or so per fob (plus whatever they quote me to fix the inevitable “vehicle” problem). I’m not willing to go through that for something that’s mostly reliable, nor am I going to whine about it.

As an aside, I also find it laughable that so many people walk through the rain and have their hands so full of groceries that they can’t get a card out of their pocket, yet they never thought to use a shopping cart to not have to put their groceries on the wet ground. Hyperbole much?

 

[AustinPowers]

The primary reason is because it works most of the time. When it does fail, I try again, bang it on my leg, or take the tiny key out and go about my business. It’s not a hassle. Maybe a 20 second delay.

Sounds like quite a hassle to me tbh.

As an aside, I also find it laughable that so many people walk through the rain and have their hands so full of groceries that they can’t get a card out of their pocket, yet they never thought to use a shopping cart to not have to put their groceries on the wet ground. Hyperbole much?

We in Europe often buy small amounts of stuff, not loads that would necessitate a shopping cart. Hence the frequent use-case.

 

[GWord]

It has the potential to become an annoyance every single smegging time you want to use your car.
You call that a non material nit? Suit yourself.



Yes, and sometimes it doesn't.

I'll be a little more direct in response to your surliness: If you're so lazy you can't be bothered to get a little card from your pocket, I guess it's material sure. Most of the alternatives from other manufacturers require a button to be pushed on a FOB or on the door handle to unlock. Net effort seems the same to me. At any rate, making a car buying decision based on the FOB and not on the totality of the driving experience seems shortsighted enough to almost be not believable. But, it's a diverse world and I continue to be surprised by that.

 

[GWord]

Very poor characterization of the desire to have a reliable key fob with your vehicle rather than requiring a separately purchased device from another manufacturer that is less reliable.

A nit would be not liking the color or texture of the key fob surface.

Anecdotal evidence points to the card being near 100% reliable. It's the phone method that seems questionable. If there were zero options that allowed near 100% reliable access to the car, then I would be completely sympathetic with the position to avoid purchasing the car. In fact, I likely wouldn't purchase a particular car in that situation. But that's not the case in the 3. The real argument here is: does the keycard method provide such a hardship as to make the car undesirable? My response is that using the keycard seems non material compared to other reliable methods that manufacturers have used in the past: physical key, keyfob with integrated button, keyfob with button on door handle, keyfob that has to be placed in a specific receiver...

 

[andremc]

Sounds like quite a hassle to me tbh.



We in Europe often buy small amounts of stuff, not loads that would necessitate a shopping cart. Hence the frequent use-case.

Maybe I just have a lower stress threshold than most and don’t let small things like that get to me. Idk.

Point taken on the shopping loads. I’ll even give you the use case where you have to put a small child in the car while holding an umbrella. But again, these aren’t every day activities for most people where having to fish for a key would cause them to get drenched.

 

[N5329K]

No rain involved in this phone fail:

"I'm getting more and more of this issue where the doors won't unlock when using the phone as a key. One of my biggest fear happened tonight while getting take out dinner. I parked right in front a popular restaurant and when I was leaving with 2 bags of food there were 8 people around my car. Looks like 2 group of party just left the restaurant and was admiring the Model 3 up close, which is rare in LA. No one cares about this car, but tonight for some odd reason, they were all looking and talking about it. I said Hi and then tried to opened the door but the door won't unlock. Now, I have to place the bags on my glass roof, dig out my phone, unlock the phone, find the app, and then wait for it to wake up the car to unlock it. People then walked away after realizing I was nervous and couldn't get the doors to open.

People at my work are used to seeing tbis but total strangers watching me trying to open my door just made me felt ashamed of owing this car. Still the best car on the market due to lack of competition but I hope Tesla fix this and many other minor quality of life issues before Toyota/Lexus and Honda catches up with a stylish RWD EV."

 

[dusdev]

No rain involved in this phone fail:

"I'm getting more and more of this issue where the doors won't unlock when using the phone as a key. One of my biggest fear happened tonight while getting take out dinner. I parked right in front a popular restaurant and when I was leaving with 2 bags of food there were 8 people around my car. Looks like 2 group of party just left the restaurant and was admiring the Model 3 up close, which is rare in LA. No one cares about this car, but tonight for some odd reason, they were all looking and talking about it. I said Hi and then tried to opened the door but the door won't unlock. Now, I have to place the bags on my glass roof, dig out my phone, unlock the phone, find the app, and then wait for it to wake up the car to unlock it. People then walked away after realizing I was nervous and couldn't get the doors to open.

People at my work are used to seeing tbis but total strangers watching me trying to open my door just made me felt ashamed of owing this car. Still the best car on the market due to lack of competition but I hope Tesla fix this and many other minor quality of life issues before Toyota/Lexus and Honda catches up with a stylish RWD EV."

Sad this would happen with such an expensive car. You were embarrassed. The car didn't work as expected. It's a big, sad, FAIL. Just because you want a nice EV doesn't mean you should have to suffer through idiotic door unlocking procedures.

 

[Knightshade]

I'll be a little more direct in response to your surliness: If you're so lazy you can't be bothered to get a little card from your pocket, I guess it's material sure. Most of the alternatives from other manufacturers require a button to be pushed on a FOB or on the door handle to unlock. Net effort seems the same to me.

But the Tesla requires you to acuate the door handle too

On my Lexus, from 2008, with either the fob or the keycard on me, I walk up (car turns on puddle lights as I approach if it's dark), touch the handle (car unlocks door- or trunk if that's the handle I touch) and pull handle- door opens.

Then I get in and push the start button.

Never have to take anything out of anything- nor put it back away, and it just works, 100%, for over 10 years now.


I mean, the fact a decade+ newer MagicSpaceCar can't manage that reliably isn't going to stop me from buying it- because MagicSpaceCar... but it, along with stuff like how crap and out of date much of the media/music features are, certainly lessen the "LIVING IN THE FUTURE" feeling of the vehicle.

 

[GWord]

But the Tesla requires you to acuate the door handle too

On my Lexus, from 2008, with either the fob or the keycard on me, I walk up (car turns on puddle lights as I approach if it's dark), touch the handle (car unlocks door- or trunk if that's the handle I touch) and pull handle- door opens.

Then I get in and push the start button.

Never have to take anything out of anything- nor put it back away, and it just works, 100%, for over 10 years now.


I mean, the fact a decade+ newer MagicSpaceCar can't manage that reliably isn't going to stop me from buying it- because MagicSpaceCar... but it, along with stuff like how crap and out of date much of the media/music features are, certainly lessen the "LIVING IN THE FUTURE" feeling of the vehicle.

Enjoy your future Lexus purchase I guess? Maybe we're all just getting more dug into our respective positions, but I think this still exemplifies my initial impression that it seems lazy if the deal breaker is the act of reaching into your pocket, ignoring the dozens of other features that make the car a compelling purchase. I remember this silly feature Ford cars used to have where you could wave your foot under the rear bumper of their hatchbacks and it would power open. That didn't make me run out and buy a Ford Flex (mainly because the remainder of the car was hot garbage.)

Look, you are the expert in your own opinions of what you like and dislike, and far be it from me to opine on that. All I'm saying is that if a tiny inconvenience like reaching into your pocket is a deal breaker, maybe you weren't really that hot on the car to begin with.

 

[iwannam3]

Question to people who have the car. I was thinking about my use case today and wonder how the Model 3 will deal with it. I live in a very safe neighborhood and I park my car in my attached private garage. With my current vehicle I have no requirement or desire to lock the vehicle while its parked at my house. I simply park and get out/back in as I need to. Also with the car in the garage I'm often coming/going into the car without a key or fob throughout the day if I need to to get things or put things in the vehicle.

So, the question is how will the Model 3 deal with this. Basically, I don't want the car to be locked at all when I'm parked in my garage. Oh, I should mention my current vehicle has a little lock button on the door handle. So if I don't press the button, it doesn't lock. The wireless key fob stays in my pocket or bag to start the car.

Home link knows it "home", should be an option to lock or not lock at home. I find it a nuisance to have to have the phone to just get sunglasses or second set of groceries out of it in my own garage..

 

[N5329K]

All I'm saying is that if a tiny inconvenience like reaching into your pocket is a deal breaker, maybe you weren't really that hot on the car to begin with.

I can't speak for anyone else, but for me the inconvenience of occasionally reaching into my pocket or wallet to retrieve a phone or a card is not a problem. It's not knowing if the thing will open or lock every single time I approach the car or leave it. Will it, or won't it? Every time. That's what would bother me.
Robin

 

[CuriousG]

Yea but the key card is a $5 replacement from Tesla if you lose it.

This may be a $5 part for Tesla but you can be sure that will cost a lot more than that to replace.

 

[Knightshade]

Enjoy your future Lexus purchase I guess?

No, the Lexus was purchased in 2008. Did you not read the post to which you are replying?

Maybe we're all just getting more dug into our respective positions, but I think this still exemplifies my initial impression that it seems lazy if the deal breaker is the act of reaching into your pocket, ignoring the dozens of other features that make the car a compelling purchase.

the only thing lazy here seems to be your reading- since yo now make it obvious he didn't read the whole post you are quoting.

Since it makes exceedingly clear this is not a "deal breaker" at all.

It's just an example of a place where a car that is phenomenal in so many ways is lacking a basic function so many other cars got right 10+ years ago. (I even gave another example of such elsewhere in the post after you apparently had stopped reading it regarding the media stuff)

I remember this silly feature Ford cars used to have where you could wave your foot under the rear bumper of their hatchbacks and it would power open. That didn't make me run out and buy a Ford Flex (mainly because the remainder of the car was hot garbage.)

Not only is the feature not silly- many vehicles from other brands offer it now too because it's useful and works well.

It wouldn't be "the" reason I'd buy something, but it's certainly a useful feature.

Look, you are the expert in your own opinions of what you like and dislike, and far be it from me to opine on that.

You mean more than you already have?

I'm saying is that if a tiny inconvenience like reaching into your pocket is a deal breaker, maybe you weren't really that hot on the car to begin with.

And I'm saying maybe actually read the whole post you're replying to next time so you don't go off about stuff that's the opposite of what the post actually said?

 

[tread]

This may be a $5 part for Tesla but you can be sure that will cost a lot more than that to replace.

You as a customer are charged only $5 to replace a key card. The cards probably cost Tesla .10 - .30 cents.