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Tesla battery packs: high-margin, non-automotive applications

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You guys are too good. Ferries it is. Bonus points all around!

Rapid cycling is the key, but the ability to charge cars en route was too cool. It looks like the Swedes and Noregians beat me to it. My Danish sister-in-law tells me quite a bit of drinking happens along the way. Not sure how that relates to electric ferries, but what the heck.

It looks like I don't need to discuss this application much, but it is fun to illustrate how rapid cycling helps the economics. Suppose you've got a 1 MWh pack and that the average trip uses 65% capacity. The extra capacity is helpful as a margin of safety and to protect against the damage of deep cycling. I've that the total lifecycles of Li-ion batteries can be extended beyond 10,000 if the level of charge remains between 30% and 95%. If this ferry make say 10 voyages per day, it will last about 3 years (1000 days). In that time, it discarges 6.5 GWh. If energy arbitrage is a savings of say $0.32 per kWh, this is lifetime savings of $2M. This is such a fantastic return in three years, I would expect it to be well worth the retrofit cost. Moreover, much of the retrofit cost would just be a one time costs. Replacing the battery every three years for say $300k would be well worth it. Even if the frequency is less than 10 voyages per day, the economics work pretty well, but at a low enough level chronological aging of the battery could be a limiting factor and of course financing costs go up.

I do think that sightseeing vessels and cruiseships that dock daily have strong potential as well.
 
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I was gong to guess "ferries", but the ship had left the harbor....
Haha, you get bonus points too!

The Siemens website has lots of good articles. They seem to be going after the low hanging fruit where it may be found. This article is particularly good for understanding hybrid diesel-electric drives in ships. Run the screws with electric, generate electricity from diesel and round it out with a massive battery. This can save 33% of the fuel.
Electric Mobility Motors - Pictures of the Future - Innovation - Home

Siemans has a pretty impressive array of electric mobility projects. I hope Tesla does not miss the boat on such opportunities.
 
The newer Viking River cruise ships have hybrid engines that are recharged with onboard solar panels.

The reference I have on this contains sparse technical details

Viking Longship Series, Viking River Cruises - Ship Technology

But its clear that the possibilities exist now for short haul cruise lines.
That's pretty cool. Basically the generators are range extenders, so charginging at port is an option. As batteries become cheaper and denser, perhaps we'll see the batteries increase offsetting increasingly more fuel with electricity. Solar panels are a nice touch, but probably not sufficient.

I also wonder about the posibility of having battery packs essentially in shipping containers. When a ship enters port it switches out a container size battery. This would obviate the need for MW charging rates and the portside batteries to supercharge at that rate. Siemens has essentially created this kind of battery source supercharging solution to enable MW charging of their ferrier. But if you could simply drive a battery pack onboard, you would not need to supercharge. With larger ships that already are optimized to take on shipping containers, battery swapping could be a viable solution. The batteries could be leased by a third party much the way shipping containers are leased.
 
2 to 3 percent of the electricity consumed in the state of California is used to convey water.

Water-Energy Connection| Region 9: | US EPA

Indeed, after agriculture, thermoelectric power generation is the largest consumer of water. Coal is the biggest user. But PV, wind and geothermal do not consume water. I don't think hydroelectric actually consumes water either, because it is available downstream and dams improve the availability of water. Pumped hydro is actually an excellent way to store energy at utility scale, although there is some evaporation loss.

Was there some potential application you had in mind for battery packs in the movement of water? I've always imagined that the intermittency of solar and wind was not a problem for moving water.
 
Shipping uses far more power than most people realize. A typical 8,000 TEU cruising at its design speed of 24 knots consumes about 225 tons of bunker fuel per day, with a heat content of 40 MJ/kg. That's 2.5 million kWh per day. Of course, a lot of that energy is wasted in inefficient combustion; let's say the engines are 25% efficient, so the actual useful energy applied is "only" 625,000 kWh. Electric engines have much better efficiency; let's use 90% efficiency from the battery. So we need to have 695,000 kWh of battery power available per day of travel.

Let's look at a typical long-haul route: Shanghai to Rotterdam takes 20.8 days at 24 knots. So that ship would need 14.4 million kWh of battery storage, equal to 170,000 85kWh Model battery packs. These batteries would weigh 80 times more than the bunker fuel and would take up a similar multiple of space. OTOH, refueling would probably cost only about $1 million, versus $2.25 million for bunker fuel. OTOH, 14.4 million kWh of batteries would cost $2.9 billion at $200/kWh. Ouch.

That's why the solution for moving ships away from fossil fuels starts with migrating very large ships into modular nuclear reactors. 2.5 million kWh / day means around 100MWe reactor, well within range of proposed small modular reactors. Any ship over 100 thousand tons of displacement will be large enough to efficiently use such a reactor.

Smaller ships might be economical with hydrogen fuel cells, after we learn how to operate them at high power levels for a while (with the fools that will buy the FCV cars in the near future).
 
That's why the solution for moving ships away from fossil fuels starts with migrating very large ships into modular nuclear reactors. 2.5 million kWh / day means around 100MWe reactor, well within range of proposed small modular reactors. Any ship over 100 thousand tons of displacement will be large enough to efficiently use such a reactor.

The US Navy gave up on powering non-carrrier sized ships with small nuclear reactors ~30 years ago... too expensive... what's changed?

This probably has a better chance...
http://www.jouleunlimited.com

Assisted by this...
http://www.skysails.info/english/
 
The US Navy can't do anything on a cost effective basis. Nothing at all. Their absolute last thing they think about is saving money.
Plus I'm not talking about traditional water cooled reactors. The technology will come, in less time than it takes to build a new LWR/BWR in the USA.

I don't mean to single out the US Navy as particularly cost inefficient, its the overall US DoD procurement policy that tends to have just two established suppliers that must spread their activities in a particularly inefficient layout with maximum outsourcing and hundreds of small manufacturing suppliers to garner congressional support.

To give one simple example, just compare how much a non NATO country spends to build a 4.5 gen fighter aircraft (Swedish Gripen NG, Russian Migs) with the Boeing F/A-18E.

Also compare how much it costs to build a terrestrial large nuclear reactor in the US or France vs in Russia, India, China and South Korea. They can do it 80% cheaper than the largest cost overruns (Areva EPR reactors under construction in Finland, UK and France). In a year or two the Chinese will finish completion of their first EPR reactor. I bet they will do it at a fraction of the cost to do it in Europe.
 
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My biggest use of grid energy is the Teslas followed by refrigeration, hot water, washing machine motor, media, LED lighting, etc. Tesla should design (have already designed!) an off-grid solar/battery solution suited for owners of Tesla cars so they can go completely off grid. It is understood that the solar array will have to be at least 50% bigger than usual. Excess kwhs will dump into heat storage. Perhaps this is an 'automotive' application so inappropriate to this thread.
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My biggest use of grid energy is the Teslas followed by refrigeration, hot water, washing machine motor, media, LED lighting, etc. Tesla should design (have already designed!) an off-grid solar/battery solution suited for owners of Tesla cars so they can go completely off grid. It is understood that the solar array will have to be at least 50% bigger than usual. Excess kwhs will dump into heat storage. Perhaps this is an 'automotive' application so inappropriate to this thread.
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One application I'm yet to see is a combined Solar PV + Solar heating panel. By circulating cold water through the solar PV panel it gets cooled, which increases its efficiency (the cooler, the lower its electrical losses), of course this would be the start of the solar heating circuit. Just the first 20% of the heating would use PV panels, the remainder should be dedicated solar heaters. This might be a brain dead uneconomical idea...
 
A comment of actual real world usage of Wind and photovoltaics since 2000 to 2013, from BP-statistical_review_of_world_energy_2014_workbook.xlsx (which is downloadable for free). I found a few sheets of the spreadsheet intriguing. 1) we have used over 44 cubic miles of petroleum since 1965 (planetary) however. since 2000 wind has increased by a factor of 20x and PV (photovoltaics) is astounding by a factor of darn near 50x. figures are in terawatt hours per year. hope my data formats ok here
note from 2008 to 2013 wind tripled to 628 terawatt hours. and PV by a factor of 10 from 11.2 terawatt hours to 124.8 terawatt hours. these figures are for the planet. spreadsheet has it broken out by countries, etc. tiny drops but accelerating
first line year


year20002001200220032004200520062007200820092010201120122013
Tw hr
wind29.538.553.063.485.6104.3133.1170.6219.1277.8343.2435.9522.1628.2
Tw hr
PV1.01.31.62.02.63.75.06.711.219.130.559.294.1124.8









































 
Most of the major shipping routes should be replaced with rail, which is (a) faster, and (b) can be electrified much more easily. It's also just plain more energy-efficient -- rolling is better than trying to fight the waves.

The major problems with this are political, not technological. Even the Bering Strait route is pretty straightforward technically.

I guess Australia would still need ships though.