TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

Tesla Battery Replacement Cost

Discussion in 'Model S' started by SDRick, Aug 24, 2016.

  1. SDRick

    SDRick Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2015
    Messages:
    434
    Location:
    SD CA United States
    I'm curious if anyone knows the current prices of the various Tesla battery packs (for replacement or upgrade purposes).
     
  2. sandpiper

    sandpiper Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2014
    Messages:
    1,463
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Around 20-25K.
     
  3. SDRick

    SDRick Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2015
    Messages:
    434
    Location:
    SD CA United States
    Is that the price without exchanging the original battery pack?
     
  4. sandpiper

    sandpiper Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2014
    Messages:
    1,463
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    I don't think they'll outright sell you one without the old pack. I think they'll only sell it as an exchange. And yes that price assumes exchange.
     
  5. supratachophobia

    supratachophobia Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2014
    Messages:
    1,964
    Location:
    Columbus, Ohio
    They won't say. The closest thing we have is a "recycle credit" of $1000 when you turn your old battery back in.

    And to further expound upon this, because it frustrated me in a way, were the comments made while at the Gigafactory opening. One person fairly high up in the company who's name I'm sure we are all familiar with, mentioned something along the lines of, "...the Gigafactory will also be able to accept in used battery packs for recycling at little to no cost to Tesla." And this sentiment was echoed by our tour guide as well.

    I took this to mean that Tesla is expecting to obtain these packs, in most cases, without any fair recompense to the owner. When in actuality, if you follow even the worse degradation scale. Packs traded in have substantial remaining life/usage left in them today, and presumably in the future. In fact, I think it's reasonable to assign value based on a "remaining kwh" capacity scale.

    Tesla needs to figure out a couple things sooner rather than later:
    1. Develop a battery upgrade program with realistic/fair/equitable costs now that we actually have batteries that could be worth upgrading to.
    2. Offer the owner a fair price for their "trade-in" that makes it equitable for them, but also just slightly discourages them of selling it 3rd party (whether monetarily or by convenience).
    3. Create a certification process where battery packs can be traded/bought/sold within the 8yr/unlimited mile warranty. If they want to charge a reasonable price to certify the battery you are getting is in good shape, that's fine. But with that comes the implication that Tesla will warranty it regardless of what car it is in.

    These batteries have a huge value downstream. My example in another thread was selling a 90kwh battery to an S60 owner for $15k and having myself purchase a 100kwh battery for $20k. Tesla charges us each $1000 for the swap, firmware update, and certification. The S60 owner is now driving a S90 RWD (huge upgrade and well worth $15k). And now I have 325+ miles of range for a very reasonable price. And Tesla is still making money at every step of the way (new battery purchase, reasonable install costs for each owner, certification).

    This whole business of "well that creates car config problems for Tesla to deal with", almost like a Frankenstein situation. Which I find a load of crap. These are very smart people who suckered us into thinking the S60 and the P85/S90 actually had different drive-train components, when in fact, they only had battery differences. This route creates a completely new revenue stream and increases sales overall because owners will know that their car will always have value because it can be upgraded. All those people on the fence because they are worried about having a paperweight in 4 years because a new model has tanked their resale value become a non-point. They are still free to purcahse a new car because not every option can be had down the road. It's the computer model rather than the cell phone model. Which is interesting because there is the Google Aries project which is attempting to make cell phones modular as well.
     
    • Like x 6
  6. SDRick

    SDRick Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2015
    Messages:
    434
    Location:
    SD CA United States
    Supra,

    I could not have it said it any better myself. I'm sure there is a market for my two month old 90 kW battery. I could then upgrade to the new 100 battery. I think everyone would be happy including Tesla.

    Would they really "recycle" my perfectly good "new" battery if I opt for the $20,000 upgrade to my P90DL Why not sell it as used at an appropriate discount?
     
  7. supratachophobia

    supratachophobia Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2014
    Messages:
    1,964
    Location:
    Columbus, Ohio
    Not sure what they would do. My guess is that they would test it and make it available as a warranty/refurb which has more value to them. My problem with that is essentially your 20k battery cost you 35k because they aren't giving you anything for a working core. You already bought the battery with the purchase price of the car and now you are buying another one. When you sell your car, you won't be giving an extra battery to the new owner.

    I say make the batteries available down stream to those who have 60/75kwh batteries or to people who have severely/unusually degraded 85kwh batteries. This would seem option with the most value as it essentially kills the two birds with the one stone. If Tesla *really* wants a core back, then the S60 owner would literally have no use for his battery at that point and it could be turned into Tesla, hopefully with a less insulting credit that is more than $1000. Of course, by my logic in that example, the S60 owner isn't really getting his full value out of the 60kwh battery, but he does get the performance increase as well. That, in my opinion makes all the numbers work. Tesla has a core, both owners are thrilled at a reasonable cost.

    Fun fact, I just had three S60 owners in my area express serious interest in such a deal should it be offered officially by Tesla (meaning, warrantied process). They all said 15k is a reasonable number because you are getting the range + the performance. I should bring up the fact that the brand new cost difference between a S60 and S90 was $18k+. So none of the numbers here are unreasonable.
     
  8. Don85D

    Don85D Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2016
    Messages:
    77
    Location:
    Markham, Ontario
    If the cells in the pack have degraded then the only reusable part would be the frame and cooling components.

    This reminds me of NiCd battery packs for my power drills. I was able to dismantle two packs and test cells to create one working pack but it didn't last long. In the end the cells had all degraded and could not be restored so the only remaining value was the battery case.

    I have a feeling that 8 year old Tesla packs may end up being the same. However, swapping newer packs between cars could become the 'tuner' world for Teslas.
     
  9. supratachophobia

    supratachophobia Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2014
    Messages:
    1,964
    Location:
    Columbus, Ohio
    Yes, we have no idea what 8 years of degradation would look like. But we do know what 4 years does. And I have a 6 month old 90kwh battery pack that does 289 miles of rated range on a full charge. I can't see why that wouldnt be a great deal to someone if Tesla allowed it. They CPO entire cars, all I'm asking is to CPO the battery.
     
  10. brkaus

    brkaus Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2014
    Messages:
    935
    If they created a trade in program, the new 90 pack would likely cost $60k. Look at the cost of upgrading from a 60->75.
     
  11. SDRick

    SDRick Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2015
    Messages:
    434
    Location:
    SD CA United States
    I'm not aware that upgrading from a 60 to a 75 is that expensive. I thought that was more in the $10,000 neighborhood. How did you arrive at the $60,000 figure?
     
  12. supratachophobia

    supratachophobia Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2014
    Messages:
    1,964
    Location:
    Columbus, Ohio
    I think he meant 6k???
     
  13. brkaus

    brkaus Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2014
    Messages:
    935
    If you use the 60->75 price of $10k for 15... Then a new 90 battery end user price @ $10k per 15 would be $60k.

    Why would people expect to be able to purchase a new 90 (or 100) pack for $20k and keep their old pack?
     
  14. supratachophobia

    supratachophobia Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2014
    Messages:
    1,964
    Location:
    Columbus, Ohio
    Then by that logic, a 90kwh battery pack would cost 54k if you assume the 85 to 90 range upgrade was 3k.

    The whole point is to determine a reasonable price for all this. And I think it's disingenuous and insulting to customers to charge more than the $200-250 per kw pack cost they claim to be achieving now. Again, I think they should make money on the deal. But they are also Tesla Energy, batteries/packs are going to be part of their product lineup, not just cars. They have the ability to value an old pack based on its health and that adjusted cost per kw should be used in these upgrade dealings, unless there is physical damage that needs to be accounted for.
     
  15. AZ Desert Driver

    AZ Desert Driver Genesis - The Beginning - MS60D in its nest

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2016
    Messages:
    722
    Location:
    Tucson AZ
    My crystal ball says...The current Ms battery packs are 18650 based. This design its basically an orphan and will be replaced with a 20-71 battery design in the near (5 year) future. The 18650 cells being produced now have a "first" life span (car) of about 8 years, then a "second" life being installed in Powerwalls for a second 8 years, then completely recycled raw materials into a reborn life. If your company ethos is to be fully recyclable to keep the environment healthy, why would you release control of these batteries to the wild? Trade your environmental badge for a few bucks?
    OK- I can see the business opportunity to buy used batteries, swap engines and make a civic roar. Tune away!! But I can also see why Tesla would not want to have any part of this - not endorse it, not supply parts into the Tuner Clan.
     
  16. supratachophobia

    supratachophobia Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2014
    Messages:
    1,964
    Location:
    Columbus, Ohio
    No no, your battery would stay within the Tesla family. Only into a lower spec version that could benefit more. Let Tesla put the 60kw into power walls. No sense wasting a good 90.
     
  17. CHG-ON

    CHG-ON Still in love after all these miles

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2014
    Messages:
    2,754
    Location:
    Santa Cruz Mountains, USA
    The cost is so high that I am thinking that we would be better off selling our car and buying a new one.
     
  18. SDRick

    SDRick Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2015
    Messages:
    434
    Location:
    SD CA United States
    So does anyone know the price of any size of the Tesla batteries? Would the parts department have a price on say a new 75 or 90 kW battery? Has anyone already inquired or should I?
     
  19. CuriousG

    CuriousG Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2015
    Messages:
    722
    Location:
    Elk Grove, CA
    If Tesla still had their long distance battery swap program, the used batteries could certainly go there.
     
  20. David99

    David99 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2014
    Messages:
    2,048
    Location:
    Brea, Orange County
    Tesla is not interested in selling batteries or letting people upgrade. The exception is 90 to 100 only because the 100 came out shortly after the 90 and they don't want to piss off recent 90 owners. The whole concept and design would make it very easy and quick to swap out a battery. The reason Tesla doesn't want to do it is because they want to sell cars and make money. They do not want to sell batteries only and make far less. Every person that wants to upgrade needs to buy a new car. That's what drives business for a car manufacturer. Every battery upgrade is a car not sold.
     

Share This Page