TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker and becoming a Supporting Member. For more info: Support TMC
Start a Discussionhttps://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/tags/

Tesla begins HD map development (collecting short camera videos) as i predicted

Discussion in 'Model S' started by Bladerskb, May 6, 2017.

Tags:
  1. Bladerskb

    Bladerskb Like how many times do i have to be right?

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2016
    Messages:
    710
    Location:
    Michigan
    #1 Bladerskb, May 6, 2017
    Last edited: May 6, 2017
    This is exactly as I predicted. To the point that it needs its own thread.
    Its funny how I have been right about everything I have said concerning the tesla's autopilot yet I have received unprecedented backlash.

    EAP HW2 - my experience thus far... [DJ Harry] (only one camera active)

    Enhanced Autopilot 2 may never happen before Full Self Driving is ready! (my accurate predicted timeline)

    Whether its the delay for parity or number of cameras currently being used, or how neural networks/deep learning works and the way Tesla leverages it. All the way down to the requirement of High Definition maps that are accurate to 5-10 CM unlike Tesla's current high precision map that uses GPS logging and is only accurate to a-couple meters.

    All the way down to the fact that Tesla hadn't started their HD map development and didn't have / couldn't process the raw video data from Mobileye's AP1. I also said when they start their HD map development we will all know about it through announcement from Elon Musk himself or through data uploads from Wi-Fi.

    Infact in my very first post in this forum I listed exactly how this video collection will happen and what it will be used for.
    I have also said in the past that they will only need short video clip or even just a picture in some cases and processed meta data in most cases. The short video clips are then annotated by a human and collated to be used in training the specific models.

    Tesla are doing two things. They are creating a 5-10 cm HD map for the car to localize in (requires only metadata processed by the on-board dnn model).

    The HD Map also includes exact location of traffic lights. How traffic light works in SDCs is that they look for the exact position of a traffic light. They don't look at the entire picture. since they know the exact position of what traffic light they want to examine from the HD map, they focus on it (requires only metadata).

    HD Maps also includes what traffic light exactly corresponds to a lane or road. At an intersection there could be 10 traffic lights facing you and you need to know exactly which one you should be paying attention to in relation to where you want to go (*requires maybe video)

    Detection NN Models are not perfect and you can get accuracy of 80% easily but to improve on that, you need millions of more pictures to train the network with. Improving a traffic light or stop sign detection model will (require video clip/image). It can also be improved to only take a picture of intersections that are not mapped yet / intersections that it fail to properly recognize.

    When Raw Video clip ( which are just small number of picture frames) are uploaded, they are annotated by a human and collated.

    Why would you need video clips and not just metadata


    For example if your car were to come to a stop at an intersection with no car directly in-front of it and that intersection haven't been mapped and it doesn't detect a traffic/stop sign. The car will take a picture with the assumption that its traffic sign/light detection model failed and there must be a stop light, or stop sign somewhere. The picture gets sent back to HQ, which is then annotated by a human and collated.
     
    • Informative x 16
    • Like x 6
    • Helpful x 1
  2. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2013
    Messages:
    13,008
    Location:
    San Mateo, CA
    Impressive example of quoting your own posts while patting yourself on the back. ;)
     
    • Funny x 38
    • Like x 19
    • Love x 2
  3. googleiscoul

    googleiscoul Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2017
    Messages:
    87
    Location:
    Aldie VA
  4. Bladerskb

    Bladerskb Like how many times do i have to be right?

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2016
    Messages:
    710
    Location:
    Michigan
    #4 Bladerskb, May 6, 2017
    Last edited: May 6, 2017
    Lol i mean each individual thread shows how much backlash i get from making these posts.
    It does feel good to be vindicated. But its not even about vindication, cause i knew i was right all along. I mean this is my career. But I believe everyone Tesla customer should know exactly how autopilot works and what to expect from it.

    Plus i have alot more quotes that i excluded like below. Let's just say if i quoted everything i was right in. i will take up the entire first page. :p


    Someone said i should make a thread so i did.

     
    • Like x 6
    • Funny x 1
  5. ACExpress

    ACExpress Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2017
    Messages:
    78
    Location:
    Dallas, TX
    I got you something for your troubles...[​IMG]
     
    • Funny x 19
    • Like x 5
    • Love x 2
  6. jayman

    jayman Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2013
    Messages:
    271
    Location:
    Illinois
    I for one appreciate it. I've been following your posts and yours have been most informative regarding Tesla's presumed plans on automated driving. It also makes sense and gives me hope for the future that I didn't throw 3k and more down the drain...
     
    • Like x 3
  7. hariclt

    hariclt Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2016
    Messages:
    59
    Location:
    Charlotte, NC
    Thanks for being so informative ... and sticking to your guns..
     
    • Like x 1
  8. lunitiks

    lunitiks ˭ ˭ ʽʽʽʽʽʽʽʽʽ ʭ ʼʼʼʼʼʼʼʼʼ ˭ ˭

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2016
    Messages:
    1,456
    Location:
    Prawn Island, VC
    @Bladerskb you have a very negative/agressive tone in your posts, and they are seldom accompanied by external sources, I think that's what make people suspicious. However the more I read about this subject, the more I am starting to realize that you are often right in your (blunt) statements. So I keep reading your stuff. Not saying I agree wth you, just that it's becoming more and more apparent that you're not 100 % full of bs :D
     
    • Like x 7
    • Funny x 1
  9. Bladerskb

    Bladerskb Like how many times do i have to be right?

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2016
    Messages:
    710
    Location:
    Michigan
    #9 Bladerskb, May 6, 2017
    Last edited: May 6, 2017
    Well I try to post as much external source as possible. But most people don't click on them and read them. Quoting them would sometimes be lost in the entire post plus i wanna make the post short as possible.

    For example, detection of traffic lights.

    http://static.googleusercontent.com/media/research.google.com/en//pubs/archive/37259.pdf

    I quoted some relevant parts. But really reading the entire thing will illuminate some of the points i was making.
    I also excluded alot of things that Tesla new update is doing to keep the post short.

    Things like:

    • How far away is the traffic lights / intersection lines /stop signs (video clip frames), feed the frames with the distance information (get distance information from car exact speed/IMU) into a deep neural network to develop a model that can predict the distance of traffic lights, stop signs and intersection lines (needed for FSD)
    etc.
     
    • Informative x 3
  10. WillK

    WillK Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    68
    Location:
    Milwaukee, Wi
    It may not be what you are saying it might be how you are saying it.
     
    • Like x 1
    • Love x 1
  11. Bladerskb

    Bladerskb Like how many times do i have to be right?

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2016
    Messages:
    710
    Location:
    Michigan
    [​IMG]
     
    • Informative x 6
    • Like x 3
    • Love x 2
    • Funny x 1
  12. croman

    croman Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2016
    Messages:
    1,531
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Congrats I guess? I still think you paint too broad a brush and are far too brusque than is necessary. Abrasiveness leads to self perceived martyrdom.

    I still know my car was uploading data. To what end I never figured out.
     
    • Like x 1
  13. X Fan

    X Fan Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2015
    Messages:
    896
    Location:
    Naples, FL & OIB, NC
    It must be great being you although your arms must get tired with continuous pats on the back....
     
    • Like x 6
  14. immolated

    immolated Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2016
    Messages:
    54
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    If you give a million monkeys a million typewriters....
     
    • Funny x 6
    • Disagree x 2
  15. Hugh Mannity

    Hugh Mannity Mediocre Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2014
    Messages:
    852
    Location:
    Port Haney, BC
    That data sharing prompt I've never seen before. Is it being rolled out with the new software update or can we navigate to it somehow already?
     
  16. Bladerskb

    Bladerskb Like how many times do i have to be right?

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2016
    Messages:
    710
    Location:
    Michigan
    its with the new update.
     
    • Informative x 2
    • Like x 2
  17. jayman

    jayman Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2013
    Messages:
    271
    Location:
    Illinois
    I got the new update but didn't get a data sharing prompt...
     
  18. J1mbo

    J1mbo Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2013
    Messages:
    922
    Location:
    UK
    Tesla want video clips to improve image recognition. In addition to being able to continue to collect road segment data.

    You assume this is for HD mapping, but it could just as easily be for improving the DNN. Road segment data + disengagement + video can equally be used to tune the DNN.
     
    • Like x 3
  19. AnxietyRanger

    AnxietyRanger Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2014
    Messages:
    7,477
    Location:
    EU
    Good job @Bladerskb! Appreciate it, as always.

    The back patting is well deserved. :)
     
    • Like x 3
  20. Bladerskb

    Bladerskb Like how many times do i have to be right?

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2016
    Messages:
    710
    Location:
    Michigan
    No assumption here at all and I already mentioned that they will use this to improve their detection networks and also create new ones.
    Road segment data is an industry term, it is a component of hd maping. Tesla for example had high precision map in which their RSD back then only consisted of gps then later radar (for whitelisting) and finally car speed (for fleet learned curvature) logging as i have proved.

    Tesla is mapping out every lane on Earth to guide self-driving cars
    Upgrading Autopilot: Seeing the World in Radar

    Now their RSD will include lane lines, road signs and traffic light positions, etc just like Mobileye.
    The only reason you would want the position of traffic lights for example is because you want to build a map of traffic lights and add control semantics to them.
    The video collection is necessary to improve and build networks needed for hd mapping.

    Road Experience Management™ (REM™) - Mobileye

    Lastly this has nothing to do with autopilot disengagement.
     
    • Informative x 1

Share This Page