Tesla Begrudgingly “Recalls” FSD Beta for NHTSA

I'm sure this will be a sticky on all of the vehicle forums shortly:

NHTSA Recalls Every Tesla Equipped With 'Full Self-Driving Beta' Over Crash Risks

The safety agency is requiring a software update to Tesla Model S, Model X, Model 3 and Model Y vehicles, saying FSD Beta "may allow the vehicle to act unsafe."

jalopnik.com

(moderator note: related threads here…)
FSD Recall? in Software
Recall FUD in Uk

"Full Self Driving Tesla" by rulenumberone2 is licensed under CC BY 2.0.
Admin note: Image added for Blog Feed thumbnail

 

[Kevy Baby]

That is a prime example of a very odd and negative edge case.

Not as odd as you think: I frequently see weird speed limits in parking lots. For example, at Disneyland, the speed limit is 14 MPH: it gets your attention more than (for example) 15 MPH would.

 

[JHCCAZ]

Not as odd as you think: I frequently see weird speed limits in parking lots. For example, at Disneyland, the speed limit is 14 MPH: it gets your attention more than (for example) 15 MPH would.

Lol, sorry if you missed the nerdy jokes in my comment.

That is a prime example of a very odd and negative edge case.
Can we not agree?

 

[zoomer0056]

Last year we had 2 signs down for several weeks. One was where the speed limit transitions from 35 mph to 45 mph, and the other, on a different road, where the limit transitions from 45 mph to 55 mph. The first was a (main) county road, the other a main state north-south highway. In both cases, TACC and the UI both stayed at the lower speed limit, although the map data would not have changed (same for decades). When the signs went back up, the transitions returned immediately.

That's what I would expect when the cameras saw the signs.

 

[Supcom]

That is a prime example of a very odd and negative edge case.

It looked like a private sign on a private road (shopping center?). AFAIK, speed limit signs on public roads in the US must be black lettering on a white background.

 

[mongo]

I actually don't have a problem with them calling things "recall" where the remedy is ultimately a OTA update, it's fine if you want to use "recall" to communicate the seriousness of the issue. I.e. it belongs to a class of issues that can warrant recalls.

My problem with "recall" is it's being used for issues that are clearly not high severity, like for bugs in convenience features or the boombox feature. FSD/Autopilot bugs that prevent the driver from taking back control because the computer froze or something, that would be recall-class IMO, not the fact that the system doesn't choose the right lanes or whatever.

When I had an Acura it had a recall where the airbags would occasionally explode and embed hot metal shrapnel in your face, that's high severity, recall-worthy. On the contrary, issues where my car can make fart or coconut sound FX or an elaborate cruise control system can roll stop signs are not recall-worthy.

Non-compliance with federal regulations (making new cars non-salable) is serious.

Tesla is pushing the boundaries of what is defined and NHTSA is pushing back. NHTSA makes the rules though...

 

[CyberGus]

AFAIK, speed limit signs on public roads in the US must be black lettering on a white background.

...except for these, of course

 

[zoomer0056]

...except for these, of course

Yup, yellow means warning.

 

[tivoboy]

...except for these, of course

Yes, those aren’t speed “limit” signs, they are suggested speeds.

 

[CyberGus]

Yes, those aren’t speed “limit” signs, they are suggested speeds.

All speed-limit signs are suggestions

 

[AndrewZ]

We should note the NHTSA tends to be reactive in nature and their investigations etc generally stem from owner complaints. If they're investigating something and it results in a recall, you can bet they're acting on complaints from owners/users.

NHTSA relies heavily on their complaint submission tool, reports, and even media coverage. So if we're questioning what the NHTSA recalls, we should probably be questioning what people are complaining about.

 

[mongo]

We should note the NHTSA tends to be reactive in nature and their investigations etc generally stem from owner complaints. If they're investigating something and it results in a recall, you can bet they're acting on complaints from owners/users.

NHTSA relies heavily on their complaint submission tool, reports, and even media coverage. So if we're questioning what the NHTSA recalls, we should probably be questioning what people are complaining about.

Non owners/ users also submit complaints...
Doubtful many owners on Beta compained about rolling stops...
Here is a description of their data sources.
Resources Related to Investigations and Recalls | NHTSA

 

[zoomer0056]

If they're investigating something and it results in a recall, you can bet they're acting on complaints from owners/users.

I'm pretty sure NHTSA monitors TMC as their number one source of Tesla complaints. If it's complained about, it's on TMC .... the definitive complaint source. I love TMC, and spend way too much time here.

 

[kabin]

Non owners/ users also submit complaints...
Doubtful many owners on Beta compained about rolling stops...
Here is a description of their data sources.
Resources Related to Investigations and Recalls | NHTSA

I think one needs to enter a VIN to begin the complaint process.

 

[2101Guy]

NHTSA does CONFIRM the complaint before the recall process. They don’t go off of just the word of a couple of rando’s and instantly issue a recall

 

[AndrewZ]

Non owners/ users also submit complaints...
Doubtful many owners on Beta compained about rolling stops...
Here is a description of their data sources.
Resources Related to Investigations and Recalls | NHTSA

I watched Beta testers, can't remember which, on camera griping about the rolling stops as they happened back before the recall.

Rolling stops are traffic offences in many places, and Tesla won't be paying that ticket

 

[mongo]

I watched Beta testers, can't remember which, on camera griping about the rolling stops as they happened back before the recall happened.

Rolling stops are traffic offences in many places, and Tesla won't be paying that ticket

YouTube is not a submitted to NHTSA complaint though, which was my understanding of what you were speaking of.

I think one needs to enter a VIN to begin the complaint process.

Which are easy to get (use recall search to validate) and still don't validate ownership.

NHTSA does CONFIRM the complaint before the recall process. They don’t go off of just the word of a couple of rando’s and instantly issue a recall

Sure, due diligence. That doesn't change the history of non-owners submitting conplaints.

More than 30 complaints were indeed posted with federal authorities by one man, Keith Leech of New South Wales, Australia.

Contrary To Musk's Suggestion, NHTSA Did Not Call...

 

[DrGriz]

All speed-limit signs are suggestions

This and they are often the safe speeds at which you can make those curves, at least where I live. We encounter curve after curve when driving canyons with speed limits (white sign) of 55. Those curves marked 35 mph with a yellow sign are serious, and those who ignore them end up in the river.

Why shouldn't FSB and AP be capable of following safety recommendations?

(not asking Gus, just a rhetorical question)

 

[stopcrazypp]

I think one needs to enter a VIN to begin the complaint process.

Non-owners can enter VINs. See the whole fake suspension complaint. Some guy entered a bunch of fake reports. It's not that hard to do.

The story behind the 'false' Tesla suspension complaints to NHTSA

Following reports of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) probing Tesla over a possible problem with the Model S’...

electrek.co

 

[JulienW]

This and they are often the safe speeds at which you can make those curves, at least where I live. We encounter curve after curve when driving canyons with speed limits (white sign) of 55. Those curves marked 35 mph with a yellow sign are serious, and those who ignore them end up in the river.

Why shouldn't FSB and AP be capable of following safety recommendations?

(not asking Gus, just a rhetorical question)

Because at this time it ONLY identifies/reads standard Stop signs and Speed Limit signs. It doesn't "see" any other signs.

 

[DrGriz]

Because at this time it ONLY identifies/reads standard Stop signs and Speed Limit signs. It doesn't "see" any other signs.

Yes, that is what I was saying. It just seems that if it can read speed limit signs, it shouldn't be a leap for it to read them on yellow backgrounds when it's a safety issue.