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Tesla BEV Competition Developments

Discussion in 'TSLA Investor Discussions' started by uselesslogin, May 25, 2014.

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  1. electracity

    electracity Active Member

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    The outback was a wagon, but was raised and became a CUV.

    I think the question is what come after the SUV/CUV. People always want to reject what becomes common. SUV's replaced the minivan in the U.S. This trend began with higher income neighborhoods buying SUVs instead of minivans. Just like the upper middle class leads with changing to EV today.
     
  2. JohnSnowNW

    JohnSnowNW Active Member

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    If the AMC Eagle was considered a station wagon, then I think there is a precedent for the i-Pace, etc....but several on my list are considered SUVs...which...I mean...
     
  3. JohnSnowNW

    JohnSnowNW Active Member

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    Yes, they have raised the Outback over the years...but I believe its actual designation is as an SUV now, which I obviously disagree with.
     
  4. jbih

    jbih Member

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    KIA e-Nero tested. In German, subtitles with auto translation are available.

    The tester knows many EVs since he is at a EV rental agency and they consider buying several e-Neros. At the end, he says something like: "What car shall we have in 2019? There were Model 3 and Model S, then suddenly there is another option."
     
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  5. neroden

    neroden Model S Owner and Frustrated Tesla Fan

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    The Kias are nice, but AFAICT they still plan ridiculously low production numbers.
     
  6. Yuri_G

    Yuri_G Member

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    Around 50k a year. If that's the new normal for legacy manufacturers it would be a step in the right direction.

    Hyundai ramps up production of Kona Electric
     
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  7. jbih

    jbih Member

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  8. neroden

    neroden Model S Owner and Frustrated Tesla Fan

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    Oh, finallly. That's good news. That's also *news*; as jbih says they were going way slower than that before.
     
  9. jbih

    jbih Member

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    From an interview with Uwe Hochgeschurtz, Renault Germany:

    Haben Sie die Händler schon auf Ihrer Seite, was das Thema E-Mobilität angeht?

    Es war eigentlich schon vor zwei Jahren absehbar, dass der Trend in Richtung E-Fahrzeuge gehen und zunehmen würde. Ich habe deshalb schon sehr früh unsere Händler ermuntert, etwas mutiger bei den Elektrofahrzeugen zu sein. Klar, das ist genau das Gegenteil dessen, was die Händler vorher gemacht haben. Deswegen müssen wir noch mehr Mühe aufwenden, um das Thema durchzusetzen. Andererseits sind bei manchen Händlern schon 30 Porzent der Verkäufe Elektroautos. Und die Hänlder verdienen Geld und haben zufriedene Kunden.

    Google translated:

    Emphasis mine. The Renault Zoe is the best selling EV in Germany.
     
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  10. RobStark

    RobStark Well-Known Member

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    Plus roughly the same number from their Kia affiliate.

    Kia Niro EV and Soul EV.
     
  11. jbih

    jbih Member

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    From auto motor und sport, issue 26/2018, page 110. Car dealerships in Germany are in a disastrous situation:
    • There were 6700 dealerships in 2017
    • 584 went bankrupt in 2016
    • 640 went bankrupt in 2017
    • They expect that only 4500 dealerships remain in 2020
    • Diesel lease returns can only be sold for a much lower price than originally calculated
    • The equity ratio ("Eigenkapitalquote") of the dealerships is at ~26%, a quarter of the dealerships has an equity ration of less than 10%
    • Additional challenges are E-commerce and direct marketing of car manufacturers
    And all of that without mention of the Tesla effect. Car dealerships may die sooner than even we anticipated.
     
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  12. Yuri_G

    Yuri_G Member

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    So you have a link for those? I haven't seen anything in regards to production for the Niro or Soul EV.
     
  13. jbih

    jbih Member

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    Interview with Oliver Blume, Porsche CEO in auto motor und sport, issue 1/2019, page 36ff:

    Wenn wir die Antriebsvarianten der Zukunft anschauen, die lokal CO2-frei sind, dann kommen nur drei Technologien infrage: Elektromobilität, Wasserstoff und synthetische Kraftstoffe. [...] Aktuell ist ein E-Auto in etwa dreimal effizienter als ein Wasserstoffauto und sechsmal effizienter als ein Fahrzeug, das mit synthetischen Kraftstoffen angetrieben wird.

    Wir hatten ja bereits seit Februar - zunächst ungewollt - kein Dieselfahrzeug mehr im Angebot. [...] In Europa bestellen bereits 63 Prozent aller Panamera-Kunden ihr Fahrzeug als Plug-in-Hybrid.

    Allein in Norwegen, wo wir sonst im Jahr rund 600 Fahrzeuge an Kunden ausliefern, haben bereits etwa 3000 Menschen ihr ernsthaftes Kaufinteresse bekundet. Sie haben sich für 2500 Euro in eine Reservierungsliste eintragen lassen.

     
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  14. SwTslaGrl

    SwTslaGrl Member

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    "Top 5 concept cars of 2018
    Practically all carmakers have EV know-how. Now it’s how to house it into stylish packages.
    [...]"

    The star is Audi E-Tron Gran Turismo. The "Mudskipper" is BMW:
    backtodrawingboardplease.jpg
    Top 5 concept cars of 2018
     
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  15. guidooo

    guidooo Supporting Member

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  16. 9837264723849

    9837264723849 Member

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    #2256 9837264723849, Dec 31, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2018
    Yesterday, I want to see the only e-Tron currently showcased in France (Place du Marché Saint-Honoré) and talked a few minutes to sale rep at the desk.


    He told me to forget the e-Tron: it's an EV, it's crap. It's some bullshit for ecologists who need subsidies. All battery EVs suck (all of them, even PHEV). Just forget them until Toyota start building hydrogen vehicles.

    I was stunned.

    They can't offer test drives before February (when they'll take reservations). The sales team will be sent to Germany for training by then (oh, so the guy talking to customers may not know *sugar*, yet, phew!). Asked about Tesla's success so far, he simply said they don't sell. I asked about these fuel-cell cars: "they're everywhere!". I thought that yes, there is probably one Mirai for every 10 Tesla driving in Paris, but kept quiet.

    Asked about why VW, Audi's parent company, is going all-in in the transition to EV, he stated that no one at Audi France believes it. I went on and told him, gently, that I'm only interested in EV but he couldn't care less. We wished one another a very happy new year.

    :eek:
     
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  17. ZsoZso

    ZsoZso Active Member

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    And that's one of the reasons why none of these so called Tesla killers will have any effect on Tesla sales.
    Even IF the manufacturers turns serious about EVs (which is a big IF ) the stealerships will put up all kinds of obstacles or even outright refuse to sell them.
     
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  18. wdolson

    wdolson Supporting Member

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    Wonder how he'll feel in a few years when he's out of a job because the public wants EVs and he's still pushing hydrogen vehicles that will never exist? Maybe he's waiting for fusion to become a thing too?
     
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  19. guidooo

    guidooo Supporting Member

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    Wow... Stuns me too ;-)

    Guess we can value the arguments he made.

    What surprises me (or shouldn't surprise me): He didn't mention the argument which, in my humble opinion, can/will slow down adoption of non-Tesla Long Range EV's in France: The charging infrastructure (not thinking too long about auto-lib, which i assume is a one time/temporary thing but one which must have affected EV owners in Paris in a crazy way):

    I could be mistaken, but as an outsider i've the impression i need a different charging card for almost every municipality/area i intend to do AC charging.
    For DC charging, i was happy with Auchun & Ikea where they provided the service, but i'm not counting on their availability anymore.
    The Sodetrel network looks promising, but at this moment they don't seem to be up to the task of serving many customers at once with high speed DC-charging and they need to seriously look into the reliability of their stations. Travelled from Paris to the Netherlands last august, two Sodetrel chargers in a row out of order (not funny with a first gen. Leaf) The first one i noticed on time in their app, so i could evade that one. The second one took me by surprise and forced me to do several hours of slow charging in Arras.
    Maybe Ionity will do it differently, but i'm not really following that network yet. Hopefully Sodetrel will decide to get really serious at some point in time. It's just a mindset, remembering/knowing what is important for customers and to try to be good at providing the desired service.
    I guess France will get their charging infrastructure on order at some point, but i'm not sure when. And that can be an argument for not buying a (non-Tesla LR) EV now. It's just my opinion/an outsiders perception and i can be mistaken...
     
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  20. 9837264723849

    9837264723849 Member

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    étron - Wiktionary :D
     
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