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Tesla BEV Competition Developments

Discussion in 'TSLA Investor Discussions' started by uselesslogin, May 25, 2014.

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  1. RobStark

    RobStark Well-Known Member

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    All legacy OEMs sell everything they produce. The question is margin. How much discount/subsidized financing does it require.

    Do you propose that Tesla act like Detroit and wait until German/Japanese competition is eating their cheese before they upgrade the Gen II vehicles ?

    At some point Porsche Thai-Khan, Audi Etron, Mercedes Esq, Jaguar I-pace et al combined will produce at significant volume (Polish LG Chem factory producing 70 GWh of battery cells in the foreseeable future in addition to Samsung SDI, SSK, and North Volt European Gigafactories) combined with ever expanding CCS fastcharging(100 kW plus) will provide some competition.

    Additionally, I don't think Tesla should wait till there is a 350 kW CCS station at every intersection before upgrading the SC Network.
     
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  2. alloverx

    alloverx Member

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  3. STARR X

    STARR X Member

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    It makes sense and something they (and every other car company) should do. Follow the Tesla model - produce an expensive car and then work your way down.
     
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  4. Saghost

    Saghost Well-Known Member

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    Well, Audi has been giving more definitive press releases than that for several years and still doesn't have cars in customer hands, so it may be a while...

    It's a logical move and I hope it goes well. But right now it's just a press release with no real details.
     
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  5. Buddyroe

    Buddyroe Banned

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    No. You wait until they have invested a fortune to design and produce their EV, then you upgrade and eat their cheese. Make them start being the one that is a step behind, and constantly chasing/copying.
     
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  6. ggies07

    ggies07 Supporting Member

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    Humanity doesn't have time for that *sugar* - for company's to go back and forth on internal reports on how their expensive model is doing, slowly moving down the chain. They've had their time, either make affordable models or go out of business and let Tesla or others buy their factories to accelerate the transition.
     
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  7. SebastianR

    SebastianR Active Member

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    I still am laughing at Audi: they promised to have the eTron out in Summer 2018. Allegedly they are slowly starting to deliver first cars now. You can still neither configure nor reserve an eTron online (at least not in Germany). Yet they have announced at least 2 more models in the meantime and have bribed - I mean invited a lot of journalists to warm and sunny locations to get good media coverage for the car. But actual cars on the road? I'm not seeing very much :(
     
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  8. jbih

    jbih Member

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    carsonight about Herbert Diess:

    Diess is CEO of VW since April 12 2018. Maybe he does change something.
     
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  9. 30seconds

    30seconds Active Member

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    So the $75k+ Audi is out with a little over 200miles in range.

    I think Tesla is pulling the 75kWh batteries out to keep minimum range of S and X above 250miles. I expect something like an 85kWh battery to be back with $75k price for the X base model and $70k for the S.
     
  10. jbih

    jbih Member

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    The most recent edition of the print magazine "auto motor und sport" from Germany contains AFAICS 10 pages of paid ads: 8 pages paid ads from Audi, Skoda and Seat, which all belong to the Volkswagen Group, and two more pages of paid ads, 10 in total. The magazine has 148 pages in total.

    No wonder journalism is in a crisis.
     
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  11. 9837264723849

    9837264723849 Member

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    No wonder why people don't trust journalists, too.
     
  12. jbih

    jbih Member

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    Will Ford use VWs MEB for the EV truck? It’s planned capacity is 50 and 80 kWh near term and max IIRC 111 kWh later. At least 80 kWh is IMHO too small for a truck, 111 kWh might still be too small.

    VW also has the PPE (Premium Platform Electric) for larger vehicles used by Audi and Porsche. Any guesses about their planned battery pack sizes?

    If Porsche is somewhat serious about building EVs for the track they need 200+ kWh pack sizes which would be also great for a truck with trailer.
     
  13. RobStark

    RobStark Well-Known Member

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    Good grief I hope not.

    Rivian is shopping their truck body on frame skateboard with potential up to 180 kWh.

    I think any Ford executive with an IQ above 100 would rather buy the Rivian skateboard or Rivian itself.

    MEB for the popularly priced midsize CUV with 300 mile range that is supposed to debut in 2020 and the Lincoln luxury version a year or two later ? Yes.
     
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  14. wdolson

    wdolson Supporting Member

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    If anyone is seriously thinking about mass producing a vehicle with more than a 100 KWh battery better have a GigaFactory or two in their backyard before they start.
     
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  15. renim

    renim Active Member

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  16. TheTalkingMule

    TheTalkingMule Distributed Energy Enthusiast

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    Fund guy on CNBC just mentioned $253/kWh at the cell level for VW batteries being sourced from Japanese suppliers. Isn't that a good 50% higher than Tesla's current cell cost?
     
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  17. Saghost

    Saghost Well-Known Member

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    I think Tesla's current cell cost is a closely guarded secret. But yes, that's a lot more than Tesla expected to be paying once they got the gigafactory running.
     
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  18. jbih

    jbih Member

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    Tesla talked about the cell&pack cost at the Q2 or Q3 earnings call (I think Q2). I expect them to be between 110 and 140 at the pack level now, maybe under 100 at the cell level?
     
  19. mongo

    mongo Well-Known Member

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    More like 100% higher, or 200% the cost, or Tesla is 50% the cost, or Tesla is 50% lower...
    :)
     
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  20. neroden

    neroden Model S Owner and Frustrated Tesla Fan

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    Here we go. The "we are copying Tesla" company is looking pretty damn good already. 150K/year capacity, decent pricing, supercharger network. This is a real alternative to Tesla... in China at least.
     
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