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Tesla BEV Competition Developments

Discussion in 'TSLA Investor Discussions' started by uselesslogin, May 25, 2014.

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  1. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney Well-Known Member

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  2. wdolson

    wdolson Supporting Member

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    Fiat Chrysler is looking at a crisis down the road. They are probably the least prepared for the future of any car maker. On top of that their quality has ranked near the bottom in Consumer Reports' quality survey for quite a few years.
     
  3. RobStark

    RobStark Well-Known Member

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    Subaru and Mazda are even less prepared.

    PSA is equally unprepared. Ergo they are mulling a partnership with FCA.

    And since Consumer Reports doesn't verify survey responders are actual owners of cars they review CR Reliability/Durability rankings are full of crap.

    Or so I have read my our most esteemed TMC Investor Forum posters.
     
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  4. wdolson

    wdolson Supporting Member

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    True about Subaru and Mazda. Toyota, despite dominating the hybrid market for 20 years is also way behind.

    I think Subaru stands to be badly hurt by the Model Y. Subaru tends to be very popular in lefty regions of the country with snow in the winter. Snow is about a once a year thing here, but Portland is the home of Priuses and Subarus. Some people actually do take their Subarus offroad, but most Subaru owners want to be able to drive on the unplowed streets when it snows. Though my SO had to admit my Model S handled better than her Impreza in the snow (a huge concession on her part). I've read Subarus are also popular in Vermont.

    The Model Y is going to have similar cargo and passenger capacity to the Forrester with significantly lower cost per mile and significantly better power. Except for the smaller cars like the Impreza, Subarus have become under powered with the 4 cylinder engines and have lackluster mileage with the V-6. When I was car shopping I was surprised to find the V-6 Outback had only slightly better gas mileage numbers than my 1992 Buick Roadmaster with a 5.7L V-8.

    The initial price tag for the Outback and Forrester are cheaper than the Model Y is going to be, but for anyone who drives much, it will pay for itself in a couple of years. Especially around here where electricity is very cheap.

    My SO who has been a die hard Subaru fan for 25 years is wavering. Though she does rightly point out that another new car is not in the budget any time soon.
     
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  5. RobStark

    RobStark Well-Known Member

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    upload_2019-4-2_0-24-13.png

    This is a little old, from 2014, but these are the folks that should be back in the new car market soon.
     
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  6. jbih

    jbih Member

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  7. wdolson

    wdolson Supporting Member

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    This is a bit newer and is specific to the vehicle model:
    The best-selling vehicle in every US state

    The Outback is the best selling vehicle in Washington, Oregon, and Colorado. The RAV-4 is best selling in some Northeastern states and Nevada. The AWD Model Y should bite into those markets.

    I don't know who in Oregon is buying all the Ram trucks in that first graphic. Over half the population of the state is in the Portland metro area and while pickups are common in the outer suburbs, the city has mostly smaller cars because of the narrow streets. A friend of mine lives in the inner SE where the houses are around 100 years old. It's very yuppy and it's a sea of Priuses with some other cars about that size. My friend's old Honda CRV is one of the largest vehicles in her neighborhood. Her husband loves electric cars, but bought a Prius because they have no way to charge a car. A lot of houses don't have driveways or garages.

    Rural Oregon, like rural Washington is culturally closer to Montana than the culture west of the Cascades and just about everyone has a pickup. I wouldn't be surprised if the Dodge Ram was the best seller in eastern Oregon. Around here Ford trucks are most common, but there is a Ford dealer close and the next nearest car dealer is 20 miles away, so a lot of locals buy Fords. Mentally going up the street I think at least half our neighbors have at least one Ford.

    When we go into Vancouver, WA I start seeing a lot of Leafs. Washington has had a few EV incentives and electricity is $0.08/KWH. Southern Vancouver has a lot of people who commute into Portland. A Leaf is a good commuter vehicle into Portland if your commute is about 20-25 miles each way.
     
  8. RobStark

    RobStark Well-Known Member

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  9. Mader Levap

    Mader Levap Member

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    What "mild hybrid" even means? "I am totally hybrid and it is totally not marketing BS term"?
     
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  10. Saghost

    Saghost Well-Known Member

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    I think that's usually used to refer to cars that add a small electric motor to a standard drivetrain, but can't power the car without the engine - things like the 48V belt alternator starter units or the Honda IMA cars.

    Not quite just a marketing term, but not much of a change, either.
     
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  11. wws

    wws Member

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    #2432 wws, Apr 3, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2019
    Yawn. Mild hybrid and hybrid are hardly a stretch for them. And if the PHEV cars are anything like the Energis sold here in the U.S., they are a yawner too. Only two full BEV cars - a Mustangish SUV and an ugly van. Color me unimpressed.

    Maybe the Explorer PHEV will finally prod GM into offering something like a Traverse with a Voltec power train.
     
  12. wdolson

    wdolson Supporting Member

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    When I was looking for cars, I did look at the hybrid Fusion. Both the standard hybrid and plugin put the batteries in the trunk so the plugin hybrid has essentially no cargo space left. Even before I discovered Tesla I was wondering why nobody was putting the batteries under the floor. I initially didn't look at Tesla because I was looking in the $30K-$40K price range and Tesla was way too expensive. But when I saw all the advantages, I was hooked.

    The Ford line up looks like it's designed more for press coverage than actual sales. I've seen a number of car companies talk about how many electrified cars they are going to have by x date, but when you actually see what they're doing, it's rather lackluster.
     
  13. hitchhiker

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    The most interesting one on the whole sheet is an electric Transit. An electric cargo van would be nice.
     
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  14. wws

    wws Member

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    We did the same comparison with the Energi twins (Fusion and C-Max) - then bought our Volt.
     
  15. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney Well-Known Member

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    IMA could power the car without the engine. It wasn't really a mild hybrid. But, IMA didn't have a clutch to the engine, so there was drag when the engine was shut down, meaning that it was inefficient to drive with engine off. I think they might have added a 2nd clutch in later versions.

    Mild hybrid requires _some_ assistance available, but limited. In Ford's case the power is used to help the turbo.

    Simple start-stop would sometimes be called micro hybrid.
     
  16. ZsoZso

    ZsoZso Active Member

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    They put in an extra 12V lead-acid battery and make heavy use of the engine stop/start feature ;)
     
  17. Sean Wagner

    Sean Wagner Member

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    Is there any indication where the cells for the mooted Mustang-like electric crossover purportedly arriving in 2020 with a range something over 300 real miles will be coming from?
     
  18. Doggydogworld

    Doggydogworld Member

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    Maybe they'll buy surplus 18650s from Panasonic :(
     
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  19. RobStark

    RobStark Well-Known Member

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    • Informative x 2
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