Tesla BEV Competition Developments

[willow_hiller]

Good news for Hyundai: Hyundai Kona Electric achieves record sales in June - PushEVs

But I'm not sure how they figure this statistic:

"Hyundai also expected that by delivering 80.000 electric cars to European customers this year, it would become the biggest provider of zero-emission vehicles in Europe in 2020."

Didn't Tesla deliver over 100k vehicles in Europe in 2019? How does Hyundai think they're going to top Tesla in 2020 with 80k?

 

[RobStark]

Tesla delivered over 111,119 cars in Europe in 2019.

 

[RobStark]

EV start-up Fisker to go public through merger with Apollo-backed firm at combined value of $2.9 billion

 

[wdolson]

Good news for Hyundai: Hyundai Kona Electric achieves record sales in June - PushEVs

But I'm not sure how they figure this statistic:

"Hyundai also expected that by delivering 80.000 electric cars to European customers this year, it would become the biggest provider of zero-emission vehicles in Europe in 2020."

Didn't Tesla deliver over 100k vehicles in Europe in 2019? How does Hyundai think they're going to top Tesla in 2020 with 80k?

Maybe they believe that as their sales rise, Tesla's will drop? It is one of the better competitors to Tesla and being a standard hatchback it might beat the Model 3 this year, but the Model Y will probably be shipping to Europe by late this year or early next year.

 

[willow_hiller]

Maybe they believe that as their sales rise, Tesla's will drop? It is one of the better competitors to Tesla and being a standard hatchback it might beat the Model 3 this year, but the Model Y will probably be shipping to Europe by late this year or early next year.

I realized it's also possible they're counting plug-in hybrids as ZEVs. Many states in the US define ZEV as PHEV+EV... Although I would beg to differ.

 

[RobStark]

 

[Brando]

OFF ROAD ADVENTURE

Rivian claimed as marketing goal - perhaps side tracked with Amazon Van project ?
CyberTruck better in every way, except for tank turns ??
F-150 - a Raptor version with hybrid power for the long range winner ?? which is easier to sell BEV or Hybrid
Bollinger - double the price but interesting for sure.

Will be interesting = but when could we compare ? One or perhaps two years to wait.

Buyers have more and more choices.

 

[RobStark]

Nissan Ariya starting at $40k. Liquid cooled 63 kWh and 87 kWh battery and 300 mile range (EPA?). US versions will use CCS standard.

 

[ammulder]

Nissan Ariya starting at $40k. Liquid cooled 63 kWh and 87 kWh battery and 300 mile range (EPA?). US versions will use CCS standard.

Looks like it's scheduled for the second half of 2021? So behind the Y and Mach-E. Not sure when the ID.4 is realistically due.

 

[ggies07]

Nissan Ariya starting at $40k. Liquid cooled 63 kWh and 87 kWh battery and 300 mile range (EPA?). US versions will use CCS standard.

wow, way better looking than the Leaf. The price is too high though....40k is way too close to any Tesla product, so why would you buy a different brand with no national charging network? All these other companies need to hit the 30k and below segment.

 

[RobStark]

wow, way better looking than the Leaf. The price is too high though....40k is way too close to any Tesla product, so why would you buy a different brand with no national charging network? All these other companies need to hit the 30k and below segment.

1) $40k is the suggested price not a firm price. Plus there will be subsidized leases. In the US Nissan may still have a quarter or two of $7500 federal credits when Ariya hits showrooms and then the drawdown.

2) MSRP is $10k below Model Y and some find the Model 3 15 cu ft trunk unacceptable.

3) Some never take road trips and don't care about the Supercharger Network. Some think the CCS Network is good enough and getting better.

More BEV variety is good. This will tick enough boxes for a meaningful number of buyers.

 

[Doggydogworld]

I realized it's also possible they're counting plug-in hybrids as ZEVs. Many states in the US define ZEV as PHEV+EV... Although I would beg to differ.

Does Hyundai actually sell PHEVs in Europe? I know they showed a Kona PHEV last year, but did it ever ship? Anyway, the claim came from a Hyundai press release:

In 2020, Hyundai expects to deliver more than 80,000 units of zero-emission vehicles to European customers, including the Kona Electric, IONIQ Electric and the NEXO fuel cell electric vehicle. With this development, Hyundai expects to become the biggest provider of zero-emission vehicles in Europe in 2020.​

Clearly NEXO will propel them into #1

Or maybe they drank the TSLAQ Koolade and believe 2019's 111k was simply three years of backlog. Even with factory shutdown Tesla is on pace for 75k. I doubt they'll hit 111k, but 80k is a very low bar.

.... so why would you buy a different brand with no national charging network?

1. The US has a national CCS fast charge network. Europe is covered with CCS
2. 40k is MSRP and gives dealers room to discount
3. Nissan still has the US 7.5k tax credit (though laws may change by late 2021)

The tax credit, state credits and discounts could push Ariya's price well below 30k. As it stands the cheapest Y looks to be 45k. That's a massive gap.

 

[willow_hiller]

40k is MSRP and gives dealers room to discount

Don't forget that Nissan is playing the oldest trick in the EV book. $40,000 is the target MSRP for the base model, while 300 miles is the target range for the top model.

If the range decreases linearly with the battery (87 kWh to 63 kWh), we can expect the $40k base model to have ~220 miles of range.

 

[Buckminster]

1) $40k is the suggested price not a firm price. Plus there will be subsidized leases. In the US Nissan may still have a quarter or two of $7500 federal credits when Ariya hits showrooms and then the drawdown.

2) MSRP is $10k below Model Y and some find the Model 3 15 cu ft trunk unacceptable.

3) Some never take road trips and don't care about the Supercharger Network. Some think the CCS Network is good enough and getting better.

More BEV variety is good. This will tick enough boxes for a meaningful number of buyers.

Yeah, but they are going to have to untick the fart app box....

 

[ammulder]

Don't forget that Nissan is playing the oldest trick in the EV book. $40,000 is the target MSRP for the base model, while 300 miles is the target range for the top model.

If the range decreases linearly with the battery (87 kWh to 63 kWh), we can expect the $40k base model to have ~220 miles of range.

Even so, this is the kind of thing that makes me think Tesla should axe the 3SR+ so they can say their shortest-range model goes 305 miles EPA. I wonder how aggressively they can price a single-motor 3LR?

Aw, dang, now I see that the performance Y is only 291 miles. They'd maybe have to switch to smaller tires in the standard configuration -- would that get it past 300? Hopefully.

 

[RobStark]

Well, I learned two more demerits for the Ariya.

Single motor variant is front wheel drive and there is no Frunk.

 

[MXLRplus]

Jeep will be releasing a 4x4 EV. Nobody knows what the powertrain will be yet:

 

[Saghost]

Jeep will be releasing a 4x4 EV. Nobody knows what the powertrain will be yet:

They say electrified, not all electric. I'm guessing it'll be a plug in hybrid, possibly using some of the bits from the Pacifica (though presumably not the transverse motor/transmission shell.)

 

[JRP3]

Nice compact dual motor setup with integrated planetary drives from Audi, (or a supplier):

 

[renim]

Well, I learned two more demerits for the Ariya.

Single motor variant is front wheel drive and there is no Frunk.

Agree regarding fwd vs rwd

But nissan's choice was frunk vs cabin space, they chose cabin space, probably the right choice.