Tesla BEV Competition Developments

[renim]

The Maxima doesn't have a frunk, it has an ICE that fills the space. The Ariya has an electric motor/inverter that fills the space. What effort was put into eliminating the frunk other than failing to optimize the motor/inverter format? That's a lack of effort.

Thats design effort, just like how Tesla shrunk the RWD frunk to be the same size as AWD frunk. That was intentional and took effort too.

For better or worse, the car companies who sell to the demographic that includes people with difficult parking (school parents and most of world's mega cities) prefer the car look of a short box nose, and no tail.

 

[mtndrew1]

thats the difference between creativity and effort. Nissan spent the effort to make the Ariya not look like a Maxima, part of that effort was to cut out the space for the frunk.
View attachment 567066
JRP3, if you don't think the Ariya is based on the Maxima, then what Nissan is it based upon?

The Ariya is based on a brand new architecture developed between Mitsubishi, Nissan, and Renault. The Ariya is the first product on this platform and it is not based on an existing vehicle.

 

[renim]

It shares at least partial design consistency with Renault/Nissan C/D class sedans, most obviously the Maxima.

Nissan has always let it teams have more than industry average design freedom with its pressed metal and less than industry averge with drivetrain components, but under the skin Ariya is a jacked up, AWD Maxima with a shrunken bonnet and boot. And of course a bespoke electric floorpan. It is the floorpan that is the key defining modern vehicle structure. So yes it a new platform, but its also very maxima/altima

 

[mtndrew1]

It shares at least partial design consistency with Renault/Nissan C/D class sedans, most obviously the Maxima.

Nissan has always let it teams have more than industry average design freedom with its pressed metal and less than industry averge with drivetrain components, but under the skin Ariya is a jacked up, AWD Maxima with a shrunken bonnet and boot. And of course a bespoke electric floorpan. It is the floorpan that is the key defining modern vehicle structure. So yes it a new platform, but its also very maxima/altima

Source for this claim?

Nissan/Mitsubishi/Renault have been working on the new CMF-EV toolkit for years now and there has been no evidence that it shares any structures with any existing products from any of those automakers. All mention of CMF-EV refers to the entire platform as a clean sheet design.

If Nissan wanted a “jacked up Maxima” they would have used the Pathfinder because, you know, that’s what it is. They also could have used any of the number of existing crossovers in their portfolio.

I think you may be confusing styling with platforms here or perhaps are not well-versed in automotive terminology.

The Ariya is unrelated to any other Nissans, inside or out. It is a new product on a new platform shared with two other automakers.

Nissan EVs will share platform with Infiniti, Renault, Mitsubishi

Nissan, Infiniti, Renault And Mitsubishi To Share EV Platform

New Nissan Ariya EV — Promoted From Concept To Promise

2022 Nissan Ariya: 300-mile electric SUV priced to start around $40,000

 

[renim]

Its a matter of semantics, so I'm happy to accept that renault nissan's definition is the industry correct definition.

But it still shares the same wheelbase as MaximaA36/ AltimaL33.

Depending on wheels we will see if it also shares the same footprint as Maxima/Altima also?

Ariya is not a LEAF, its not a Rogue or Qashqai or Xtrail or Infiniti or Pathfinder but the Maxima, now there you will find common hardpoints with Ariya.

 

[mtndrew1]

Its a matter of semantics, so I'm happy to accept that renault nissan's definition is the industry correct definition.

But it still shares the same wheelbase as MaximaA36/ AltimaL33.

Depending on wheels we will see if it also shares the same footprint as Maxima/Altima also?

Ariya is not a LEAF, its not a Rogue or Qashqai or Xtrail or Infiniti or Pathfinder but the Maxima, now there you will find common hardpoints with Ariya.

The 2020 Cadillac CT4, 2018 Acura TLX, and 2003 Dodge Ram Van also have the same 109.3” wheelbase as the Maxima.

Just like the Ariya, those cars are unrelated to the Nissan Maxima. That rough wheelbase is common in all kinds of vehicles.

The Ariya is on a new platform developed between Mitsubishi and Nissan-Renault. It is unrelated to the Maxima, Altima, CT4, TLX, or Dodge Ram Van.

 

[renim]

The 2020 Cadillac CT4, 2018 Acura TLX, and 2003 Dodge Ram Van also have the same 109.3” wheelbase as the Maxima.

Those vehicles don't share DNA with the Ariya.

Anyway, the volumes planned are not great, and the detail seems to in the cabin interior, not the body stamping. So its logical to assembly the Ariya at Nissan's Tochigi plant
tems produced:For Japan:
CIMA Hybrid, FUGA Hybrid, FUGA, SKYLINE, NISSAN GT-R, FAIRLADY Z

For overseas:
Various Infiniti models (Q70L, Q70, Q50, Q60), 370Z, Cast parts, aluminum parts, axle parts.

 

[wdolson]

Story is paywalled

Haha, Mercedes thinks Model S LR's range will remain the same for 18 months.

News is out today that there is an upgrade for the Model S/X coming called Palladium. Among the changes are a new battery pack. The new version could quite possibly have much more than the ~400 mile range today. The WLTP range is also the less accurate than the EPA range compared to real world.

Even if Tesla looses the range crown to Mercedes, it will almost certainly be much more expensive.

 

[Watts_Up]

This article is available without subscription:

Mercedes EQS rumoured to have >700 km range - electrive.com​

 

[ammulder]

Audi expects pre-pandemic car sales levels by 2022/2023: paper

Several things here:

1. Tesla Q-on-Q sales are up, Audi expects to get there by... 2023
2. Audi says Tesla uses larger batteries. Huh? Compare e-Tron 95 kWh to Model Y 75 kWh?
3. Audi estimating Tesla has a 2-year lead in software. Maybe they're expecting to substantially outperform the rest of VW on software development, while expecting Tesla to substantially blackslide?
4. Whole bunch of executive reshuffling... surprise, surprise

 

[adiggs]

Audi expects pre-pandemic car sales levels by 2022/2023: paper

Several things here:

1. Tesla Q-on-Q sales are up, Audi expects to get there by... 2023
2. Audi says Tesla uses larger batteries. Huh? Compare e-Tron 95 kWh to Model Y 75 kWh?
3. Audi estimating Tesla has a 2-year lead in software. Maybe they're expecting to substantially outperform the rest of VW on software development, while expecting Tesla to substantially blackslide?
4. Whole bunch of executive reshuffling... surprise, surprise

Sounds to me like Audi's assessment of the size of Tesla's lead (and by extension speed) is wishful thinking rather than real.

But the estimate of post pandemic car sales - I can see that. Except their markets are going to be stolen by Tesla in the meanwhile, so there's a reasonable hypothesis that the only way Audi gets back to pre-pandemic car sales is for them to be electric.

And 50k/year is barely a development program / down payment on THAT challenge.

 

[renim]

Ariya is not a Tesla competitor, but BYD Han will be (if you are in China, and your boss owns a Tesla)

also known as return of the LiFePO4

 

[renim]

BYD’s full-sized Han sedan hits market with price starting at 219,800 yuan
must be colour red, with added protoss shield

 

[renim]

and the all important
Chinese rear seat

 

[Doggydogworld]

Ariya is not a Tesla competitor, but BYD Han will be (if you are in China, and your boss owns a Tesla)
View attachment 567940
also known as return of the LiFePO4

Prices in Yuan after subsidy, ranges are NEDC:
219,800 - 81 km PHEV
229,800 - 506 km 65 kWh RWD
255,800 - 605 km 77 kWh RWD
279,500 - 550 km 77 kWh AWD (3.9 sec 0-100km/h)

Model 3 is:
271,550 - 445 km/56 kWh RWD
344,050 - 668 km/78 kWh RWD
419,800 - 635(?) km/78 kWh AWD (3.4 sec 0-100km/h)

Han is bigger than Model 3 (closer to S) and offers more bang for the buck. Entry level is ~10% more range for lower price, long range versions have ~10% less range/accel but much lower prices. BYD plans to sell the Han in Europe, but so far not in the US.

 

[MXLRplus]

The first Chinese import EV was the Cota which was LiFePO4. Sort of like a Corolla but EV. It failed badly. It wasn't a bad car though.

 

[JRP3]

Bobby Lew loves the Polestar, might be the best car he's ever driven. Only real shortfall compared to Tesla is the charging network.

 

[JRP3]

Another positive review, a bit more detailed

 

[RobStark]

Via Motors is back from the dead trying to raise $250M to make PHEV trucks from GM platforms. Bob Lutz was the hype man/ Chairman but not CEO.

EV maker Via Motors looks to raise $250 million, report says

 

[RobStark]

Rivian R1T Electric Truck Deliveries Start June 2021, R1S 2 Months After