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Tesla BEV Competition Developments

Discussion in 'TSLA Investor Discussions' started by uselesslogin, May 25, 2014.

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  1. willow_hiller

    willow_hiller Active Member

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    I'll be very interested to hear impressions once they actually let journalists drive one. As far as I know, they've never done that, right?

    I've seen pre-production vehicles parked for display, and driven in promotional material, but I don't think I've ever heard of a third party driving a Rivian truck and giving impressions.
     
  2. RobStark

    RobStark Well-Known Member

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    No journalist drives yet.

    And to clarify. Rivian says it is $69k for the mid tier 135 kWh 300 mile range 3.0 s to 60 750 hp truck. Base model 105 kWh 4.9 second to 60 230 mile range and top model 180 kWh 400 mile 3.2 s price unreleased.
     
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  3. guidooo

    guidooo Member

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    Single data point: Traded in the Leaf for a Peugeot e-208 yesterday. Expectations what a car should or shouldn't be able to do vary for each person or household. I think it a good and practical set of wheels for the European roads.
     
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  4. JRP3

    JRP3 Hyperactive Member

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    I guess this counts as competition, Rimac redesigned their drivetrain after Tesla came out with the new Roadster specs

     
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  5. RobStark

    RobStark Well-Known Member

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  6. JRP3

    JRP3 Hyperactive Member

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    "Solid-state batteries charge quicker, last longer, and have a greater energy density."...on paper.
     
  7. MXLRplus

    MXLRplus Active Member

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    Rimac is an ultra exotic produced in boutique numbers. 8 cars sold since 2011. They plan to make another 180 in the future at an unspecified date.
    To put it in perspective, 450 Bugatti Veyrons were made.
     
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  8. ammulder

    ammulder '98 GS400 -> P3D+

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    G.M. lost $758 million in the second quarter.

    "General Motors reported on Wednesday that it lost $758 million as its second-quarter revenue was more than halved, to $16.8 billion compared with $36.1 billion in the same period a year ago, as the coronavirus pandemic took a heavy toll on its operations in most regions of the world."​

    Revenue down 53%? Oof.
     
  9. Saghost

    Saghost Well-Known Member

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    With the GDP down a third, lots of folks can’t afford a new car, and a lot of people who can are probably putting it off to have money for the next disaster. The used car market was crashing hard too, with much lower values I’ve read.
     
  10. Doggydogworld

    Doggydogworld Active Member

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    GDP wasn't down a third. It dropped ~9.5% in a single quarter. If drops an additional 9.5% in each of Q3, Q4 and Q1 of 2021 then it will be down roughly a third.
     
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  11. adiggs

    adiggs Active Member

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    So Toyota thinks they're going to have a prototype of a competitive battery in 2025, with production volumes to follow later (I'd guess at least 2+ years). And they don't yet have a solution to the primary liability of solid state batteries, but maybe left unstated is that they DO have a path to solving the short lifespan problem.

    So if they fill the inside straight, then they have technology coming in 2027 that will (might) be better than 2020 or 2017 technology. Sounds like a decade in arrears with at least, for this moment in time, a path to catching up all at once, sometime later.


    Sounds like a losing strategy to me, with a non-zero chance of technological leadership or at least parity in 7 years. (And increasingly miserable technology between now and 2027; so all they have to do is hang on!)


    THIS is the state of competition for the EV market? Maybe instead of Tesla with 20% market share, maybe 50% or something similarly outrageous is a better 2030 end game to be modeling...
     
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  12. Saghost

    Saghost Well-Known Member

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    I stand corrected. All the headlines I saw this morning were quoting the 32.9% decrease, and I didn't read far enough to realize they were using a creative annualized projected rate to get that number.
     
  13. Doggydogworld

    Doggydogworld Active Member

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    Reporters love to dial up the drama....
    Solid state is typically 450-500 Wh/kg, so more than just competitive. But SS will be expensive at first.

    I've always said Roadster will use SS. Current SS cells typically do ~125 cycles. They only need to improve that to 300 cycles to have a 200k mile life in the Roadster. As a halo car Roadster needs the latest and sexiest new technology, not 1.2 tons of laptop cells. And at $250k it can afford to include $500/kWh cells.
     
  14. JRP3

    JRP3 Hyperactive Member

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    I think this unlikely.
     
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  15. UnknownSoldier

    UnknownSoldier Unknown Member

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    Typical scarestream media sensationalism these days. It's not clear what the media is trying to accomplish with misleading and downright malicious numbers like that.
     
  16. RobStark

    RobStark Well-Known Member

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    First American review of the Polestar 2

    Tested: 2021 Polestar 2 Goes Light on Style, Big on Tech

    Much like European reviewers they liked the car. Except for one thing.

    They called the exterior sheet metal " awkward" and "generic."

    On their route they use for getting MPG or range they got 190 miles of range. Versus 230 miles for Model 3 long range. Which implies 270 miles of EPA range. Whereas Polestar is saying probably 275, official numbers not out yet.
     
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  17. alloverx

    alloverx Member

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    I dont think the Polestar 2 meets my "buy gen 2 of any new tech" rule. Personally it looks great but you still got to sell them and building them in China might prove painful long term (in the US) due to politics.
     
  18. Watts_Up

    Watts_Up Active Member

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    • Informative x 4

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