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Tesla BEV Competition Developments

mongo

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2017
12,904
38,113
Michigan
2023 High trim Hummer will be $110,000.
GM unveils electric Hummer SUV topping $110,000

Full pricing for the SUV will range from about $80,000 for a base model to $110,595 for a special “Edition 1” launch model with an available “extreme off-road package.” The pricing varies based on the range, performance and battery size of the vehicle.

GM said it will begin with producing the highest priced models in early 2023, followed by less expensive versions into spring 2024. The automaker is taking reservations for the vehicle on its website.
 

RobStark

Well-Known Member
Jul 2, 2013
10,313
52,835
City of Champions, USA
ahh, nothing like the smell of dysfunctional GM in the morning.

Instead of going for an EV Tahoe or Silverado they pick a low volume, low expectation way of signaling failure

What is the point of having a million reservations on the Silverado EV they can't deliver on?

They are starting low volume niche vehicle because right now that is all they can deliver on.

Might as well charge $110k vs $45k. The volume delivered won't change.
 

JRP3

Hyperactive Member
Aug 20, 2007
19,582
43,147
Central New York
Who would buy this over a fully loaded CyberTruck with FSD at a $30k discount.
Some people really don't like the look of the Cyber and many people want an SUV.
Well both are vaporware at the moment. They both have visual presence but at least GM shows you the product you are getting.
Not sure what you mean, Tesla vehicles always look very close to the early prototypes. I don't expect any surprises when the production Cyber comes out. Not to mention we've seen the Cyber driving around in real life.
 

ohmman

Plaid-ish Moderator
Feb 13, 2014
9,965
18,009
North Bay, CA
I think the Rivian R1S would be a better comparison to the Hummer SUV. Both are low volume, relatively large sized, traditionally styled SUVs. Rivian is suggesting more range than the Hummer on their long range model and their pricing is a bit lower. But they're also a bigger unknown since they're a new company without established service centers or record, etc. A GM vehicle would come with a bit of peace of mind for some buyers since they likely have a service center nearby and GM's worldwide presence to give them some comfort.
 

30seconds

Active Member
Feb 28, 2013
2,178
5,174
SF
What is the point of having a million reservations on the Silverado EV they can't deliver on?

They are starting low volume niche vehicle because right now that is all they can deliver on.

Might as well charge $110k vs $45k. The volume delivered won't change.

kind of saying the same thing. Instead of making this a high profile, we are committing to EVs announcement, they dust off a failed low volume brand of no consequence.

At least Ford signaled they were somewhat serious by using the Mustang brand.

If they got anywhere near 1m reservations (which I fully doubt - see Ford) it would at least signal a potential future for the company.
 

RobStark

Well-Known Member
Jul 2, 2013
10,313
52,835
City of Champions, USA
kind of saying the same thing. Instead of making this a high profile, we are committing to EVs announcement, they dust off a failed low volume brand of no consequence.

At least Ford signaled they were somewhat serious by using the Mustang brand.

If they got anywhere near 1m reservations (which I fully doubt - see Ford) it would at least signal a potential future for the company.

Hummer was killed off by the Obama administration when GM was in receivership . Not the Market. Resale value for Hummers is very high. Hummer brand equity is very high. That is why reservations for limited edition Hummer EV sold out within an hour.

Building a 30 GWh battery factory signals a much more serious commitment to EVs than using the Mustang name. A second 30 GWh battery factory in Tennessee is imminent.

Silverado EV can easily get 1M reservations if GM did just like Tesla and offer refundable $100 reservations specific to each variant. Many would reserve all variants because they are not sure which they would buy.
 
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RobStark

Well-Known Member
Jul 2, 2013
10,313
52,835
City of Champions, USA
I think the Rivian R1S would be a better comparison to the Hummer SUV. Both are low volume, relatively large sized, traditionally styled SUVs. Rivian is suggesting more range than the Hummer on their long range model and their pricing is a bit lower. But they're also a bigger unknown since they're a new company without established service centers or record, etc. A GM vehicle would come with a bit of peace of mind for some buyers since they likely have a service center nearby and GM's worldwide presence to give them some comfort.

GM is an over 100 year old company vs Rivian that is a well capitalized startup backed by Amazon.

Most GM dealers won't service EVs in 2022. Roughly 1/5 of Cadillac dealers took a buyout rather than upgrade their dealerships to sell EVs. My guess is mostly urban dealers are preparing for the EV future while rural/exurb dealers are not.

Rivian will have service centers in the top 40 US Markets. My guess is this roughly aligns where GM EV friendly dealers are located. Plus Rivian will have mobile service in the entire continental US. Not to mention every Rivian owner will have their own service rep throughout their entire ownership (or least as long as that particular rep works at Rivian).

GM is no longer worldwide. It pulled out of Europe-Russia save for a few low volume Cadillac dealerships. GM has pulled out of India, Thailand, Indonesia. Southern Africa countries. It sells about as many cars in Japan as Tesla does. GM is a Sino-American company that also sells a few cars in Latin America and the Middle East.

Rivian also has an 8 year 175k mile battery & powertrain warranty. If I were to wager who will be around in 15 years to buy parts from I would bet on Rivian over GM. Ford is a walking corpse. It either gets bought by VW or is no longer a running concern.

BTW Hummer EV is full sized while R1S and R1T are mid sized.
 

ohmman

Plaid-ish Moderator
Feb 13, 2014
9,965
18,009
North Bay, CA
GM is an over 100 year old company vs Rivian that is a well capitalized startup backed by Amazon.

Most GM dealers won't service EVs in 2022. Roughly 1/5 of Cadillac dealers took a buyout rather than upgrade their dealerships to sell EVs. My guess is mostly urban dealers are preparing for the EV future while rural/exurb dealers are not.

Rivian will have service centers in the top 40 US Markets. My guess is this roughly aligns where GM EV friendly dealers are located. Plus Rivian will have mobile service in the entire continental US. Not to mention every Rivian owner will have their own service rep throughout their entire ownership (or least as long as that particular rep works at Rivian).

GM is no longer worldwide. It pulled out of Europe-Russia save for a few low volume Cadillac dealerships. GM has pulled out of India, Thailand, Indonesia. Southern Africa countries. It sells about as many cars in Japan as Tesla does. GM is a Sino-American company that also sells a few cars in Latin America and the Middle East.

Rivian also has an 8 year 175k mile battery & powertrain warranty. If I were to wager who will be around in 15 years to buy parts from I would bet on Rivian over GM. Ford is a walking corpse. It either gets bought by VW or is no longer a running concern.

BTW Hummer EV is full sized while R1S and R1T are mid sized.
I have a reservation for a Rivian. I know which company and product I prefer. But I stand by the fact that they've never delivered a single car at this point, and that most consumers who haven't been down this road before will feel some comfort with a long time stalwart like GM. I am also much less cynical about the direction GM is going than most here. Whether that's just gullibility or not will I guess become clear over time, but stating that Rivian "will have" some service centers is not equivalent to the fact that GM "does have" service centers. GM is planning to transition their entire fleet to EVs, so GM EV friendly dealers are going to be everywhere if they want to continue to sell GM vehicles.. if GM is to be believed.

GM may mostly sell their cars in China and the US, but they sell a lot more cars outside of the US than Rivian does.

And I recognize that the Hummer is a larger vehicle than an R1S, but when comparing to the slim field of electric SUVs, the R1S is the closest competitor I could come up with.
 
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RobStark

Well-Known Member
Jul 2, 2013
10,313
52,835
City of Champions, USA
I have a reservation for a Rivian. I know which company and product I prefer. But I stand by the fact that they've never delivered a single car at this point, and that most consumers who haven't been down this road before will feel some comfort with a long time stalwart like GM. I am also much less cynical about the direction GM is going than most here. Whether that's just gullibility or not will I guess become clear over time, but stating that Rivian "will have" some service centers is not equivalent to the fact that GM "does have" service centers. GM is planning to transition their entire fleet to EVs, so GM EV friendly dealers are going to be everywhere if they want to continue to sell GM vehicles.. if GM is to be believed.

GM may mostly sell their cars in China and the US, but they sell a lot more cars outside of the US than Rivian does.

And I recognize that the Hummer is a larger vehicle than an R1S, but when comparing to the slim field of electric SUVs, the R1S is the closest competitor I could come up with.

Just like Rivian isn't currently delivering vehicles most GM dealers don't currently service electric powertrains. Not a single GMC(Hummer) dealer currently services electric powertrains.

GM "will." Rivian "will" as well.

GM also has roughly half a million retirees.

GM also has a unionized workforce in the US that is pushing against electrification.

There are advantages to being a 100 year old plus established firm. There are also disadvantages.

So too for being a startup.

The casual buyer that buys on impulse will likely feel more comfortable with GM.

The EV nerd that likes to do deep level research before a major purchase will likely feel more comfortable going with Rivian. I think that is a significant part of the market for $67.5k Plus EVs.
 
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Doggydogworld

Active Member
Mar 4, 2019
1,526
5,823
Texas
What's the global delivery of MachE?
Ford won't announce Q1 Europe sales until mid-month. I know they shipped some Mach Es there, but those might just be dealer cars. Their Chinese report doesn't seem to ever break sales down by model, so I doubt we'll ever know sales there. I don't think they'll import any Mach Es into China, though. Local Mach E production is supposed to start near yearend.
 
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KJD

Supporting Member
Dec 14, 2013
1,293
932
SLC, UT
Silverado EV can easily get 1M reservations if GM did just like Tesla and offer refundable $100 reservations specific to each variant. Many would reserve all variants because they are not sure which they would buy.
I guess that GM was reading TMC this weekend. When Rob speaks GM listens. :)

 

Oil4AsphaultOnly

Supporting Member
Mar 14, 2015
1,918
5,253
Arcadia, CA
Within 6 months of GM going live for refundable $100 reservations.

For now they just announced they will build the truck.

Neither Tesla nor Rivian will be manufacturing $40k pickups at a 500k/year rate anytime soon to saturate the market.

Given GM's history with the Bolt, I'm willing to bet that the Cybertruck SR gets to 500k capacity well before the any GM EV does.
 

RobStark

Well-Known Member
Jul 2, 2013
10,313
52,835
City of Champions, USA
Given GM's history with the Bolt, I'm willing to bet that the Cybertruck SR gets to 500k capacity well before the any GM EV does.

I agree.

Doesn't prevent 1M reservations for Silverado EV. It exacerbates it . If you don't get in line you will never get your truck.

And by 500k I said the base $40k truck. Not making 450k trucks in the $55k Plus range and a handful of base trucks.
 

Oil4AsphaultOnly

Supporting Member
Mar 14, 2015
1,918
5,253
Arcadia, CA
I agree.

Doesn't prevent 1M reservations for Silverado EV. It exacerbates it . If you don't get in line you will never get your truck.

And by 500k I said the base $40k truck. Not making 450k trucks in the $55k Plus range and a handful of base trucks.

How many people buy a base silverado? Just because the consumer doesn't choose the base model (SR in this case) doesn't mean the production capacity isn't there for it.
 

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