Tesla BEV Competition Developments

[Discoducky]

Hyundai Has Biggest Profit in Seven Years, Warns About Chips

Hyundai Motor Co. posted its biggest profit in seven years, helped by sales of luxury Genesis cars and Ioniq 5 electric vehicles, but warned the global chip shortage could impact third-quarter deliveries.

www.bloomberg.com

Could just be shoddy bloomberg reporting of course

**IF** Hyundai is actually making profit with every Ionic 5 they sell, they could be in a class of 2.

 

[RobStark]

UPDATE 2-U.S. Senate Democratic deal would expand EV tax credits

A Senate Democratic deal includes a new $4,000 tax credit for used electric vehicles and other new tax credits and grants for automakers to retool factories to build greener cars. The deal struck between Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer and Democratic Senator Joe Manchin also includes an...

www.yahoo.com

 

[RobStark]

BTW It has not been confirmed Sen Sinema of Arizona is board with the Schumer-Manchin compromise.

 

[alloverx]

$300,000 income limit, how about $150,000 for a family.
$80,000 trucks/SUV limit, how about the same price as cars if we want to be "really green". Should not incentivize folks to get larger vehicles.

 

[RobStark]

$300,000 income limit, how about $150,000 for a family.
$80,000 trucks/SUV limit, how about the same price as cars if we want to be "really green". Should not incentivize folks to get larger vehicles.

How about $500k limit for family.

We should not penalize large families nor work vehicles. Large vehicles for large families are necessarily larger and more expensive. So are trade vehicles.

What we should not incentivize is luxury sedans and sports cars.

Taycans, Plaids, Airs, Celestiqs and such.

 

[replicant]

What do you guys think of the Stellantis' latest quarter? I thought they were still very focused on ICE and not trying so hard on efficiency/EV, so I'm surprised of their seemingly good results.

First Half 2022 Results

Stellantis Posts Record First Half 2022 Results with 14.1% AOI Margin(1), €8.0 Billion Net Profit and €5.3 Billion

www.stellantis.com

Stellantis Shrugs Off Supply Issues, Slowdown With Rising Profit

Stellantis NV expects to overcome supply-chain snarls to extend strong earnings into the second half of the year as the maker of Jeeps and Fiats focuses production on its most profitable models.

www.bloomberg.com

We keep comparing Tesla to Ford/GM but I believe Stellantis is still ahead and not far from VW.

 

[Discoducky]

What do you guys think of the Stellantis' latest quarter? I thought they were still very focused on ICE and not trying so hard on efficiency/EV, so I'm surprised of their seemingly good results.

First Half 2022 Results

Stellantis Posts Record First Half 2022 Results with 14.1% AOI Margin(1), €8.0 Billion Net Profit and €5.3 Billion

www.stellantis.com

Stellantis Shrugs Off Supply Issues, Slowdown With Rising Profit

Stellantis NV expects to overcome supply-chain snarls to extend strong earnings into the second half of the year as the maker of Jeeps and Fiats focuses production on its most profitable models.

www.bloomberg.com

We keep comparing Tesla to Ford/GM but I believe Stellantis is still ahead and not far from VW.

I'm trying to read their H1 bottom line and it appears they did $6.8B (Net Profit) Euro and their Q1 doesn't break that out (I'm not an accountant) so I just divide by 2 and say that they did $3.4B Euro in each Q1 and Q2.

Does appear they are doing well, haven't looked any deeper into their numbers though...

 

[Doggydogworld]

What do you guys think of the Stellantis' latest quarter? I thought they were still very focused on ICE and not trying so hard on efficiency/EV, so I'm surprised of their seemingly good results.

First Half 2022 Results

Stellantis Posts Record First Half 2022 Results with 14.1% AOI Margin(1), €8.0 Billion Net Profit and €5.3 Billion

www.stellantis.com

Stellantis Shrugs Off Supply Issues, Slowdown With Rising Profit

Stellantis NV expects to overcome supply-chain snarls to extend strong earnings into the second half of the year as the maker of Jeeps and Fiats focuses production on its most profitable models.

www.bloomberg.com

We keep comparing Tesla to Ford/GM but I believe Stellantis is still ahead and not far from VW.

Supply constraints are terrific for margins. That's why cartels are so profitable (and generally illegal).

Stellantis is battling VW Group for #1 in European vehicle sales. EU 95g effectively requires 20% of vehicle sales to be EV, so the two are pretty close in EV sales as well. I haven't seen anyone in Europe really go beyond the quota yet, nor do I expect to. The next couple years will be very interesting because the quota barely moves after taking huge jumps in 2020 and 2021. S Curve fans could be in for a real disappointment.

Fiat bungled the EU 95g quotas early on and had to buy papal indulgences from Tesla. This was mostly the fault of Sergio Marchionne (RIP), and it led to PSA opportunistically swallowing FCA to form Stellantis. Tavares is a shrewd operator, but he's got a crazy assortment of brands which might need some thinning.

Outside of Europe VAG is much stronger, especially in China. Neither is a major player in the US, though Stellantis has a couple of strong brands in Jeep and Ram while VAG fills some nice high end niches with Porsche and Audi.

 

[wdolson]

What do you guys think of the Stellantis' latest quarter? I thought they were still very focused on ICE and not trying so hard on efficiency/EV, so I'm surprised of their seemingly good results.

First Half 2022 Results

Stellantis Posts Record First Half 2022 Results with 14.1% AOI Margin(1), €8.0 Billion Net Profit and €5.3 Billion

www.stellantis.com

Stellantis Shrugs Off Supply Issues, Slowdown With Rising Profit

Stellantis NV expects to overcome supply-chain snarls to extend strong earnings into the second half of the year as the maker of Jeeps and Fiats focuses production on its most profitable models.

www.bloomberg.com

We keep comparing Tesla to Ford/GM but I believe Stellantis is still ahead and not far from VW.

The bulk of people here are from the US and Stellantis in the US = Chrysler which is the furthest behind of any North American car maker. The European branches of Stellantis were already down the EV road when they merged with Fiat-Chrysler.

 

[30seconds]

How about $500k limit for family.

We should not penalize large families nor work vehicles. Large vehicles for large families are necessarily larger and more expensive. So are trade vehicles.

What we should not incentivize is luxury sedans and sports cars.

Taycans, Plaids, Airs, Celestiqs and such.

Why should we incentivize luxury SUVs masquerading as family cars

 

[JRP3]

Removal and a look inside the MachE battery. Very long and detailed, 2X speed recommended, jump to around 32 minute mark if you just want to see inside the pack. Nothing too special, basic module configuration.

 

[Discoducky]

Interesting *IF* true and good for them. But then there's these prices

"...while the EQE starts at €70,627 for the base EQE 350+ variant; the hotter EQE 43 AMG version is over €100,000."

Mercedes Says EQE Electric Sedan Is As Profitable As The E-Class

The current smallest electric Mercedes sedan, the EQE, just went on sale in Europe this spring and it will reach the US by the end of the year.

insideevs.com

And it seems that you can't configure yet...but it is currently in production in China. Click on the AMG version "Configure now" button and it takes you a page where it doesn't exist yet....

So, I guess we'll see it when we see it.

 

[MP3Mike]

It is starting to look like the I-Pace may end up suffering the same fate as the Bolt EV and Kona EV:

Jaguar I-Pace catches on fire again – is this another Bolt EV battery fire situation?

Another Jaguar I-Pace battery caught on fire without any crash after simply sitting charging in a garage. This is the...

electrek.co

Another Jaguar I-Pace battery caught on fire without any crash after simply sitting charging in a garage. This is the fourth known I-Pace battery fire that seemingly started on its own, which is starting to be significant considering the relatively small number of units on the roads.

Jaguar also uses LG battery cells like the Bolt EV and Kona EV, which were both recalled for battery fire risks. Is this another Bolt EV battery fire situation?

 

[Doggydogworld]

BYD posts 162k sales in July. 4k overseas. Almost exactly 50% PHEV again, has to be by plan. 800k YTD, up an insane 4x from 200k last year. There was a crazy article in CNEVPost that mentioned hitting 300k/month by August. I also saw 250k somewhere else. That seems impossible, but 200k might happen. They could approach 2m for the full year, ending the year at a 3m run rate.

VW Group is way behind the curve in China. BYD could overtake them as #1 OEM (all cars, not just NEVs) next year. It would be ironic to see the legacy OEM most committed to EVs be the first to miss the transition and get knocked out in a major market.

 

[RobStark]

Toyota was first with self charging hybrids now.....

 

[Discoducky]

Toyota was first with self charging hybrids now.....

View attachment 836741

Buyback is near worst case scenario for brand new production. No near term remedy, unsafe to drive. How on earth did Toyota miss this issue during development? Their mules must have had these issues. It is astonishing to see this. We may never know how a problem like this made it into production, but it would be an engineering learning experience if we did.

 

[mongo]

Buyback is near worst case scenario for brand new production. No near term remedy, unsafe to drive. How on earth did Toyota miss this issue during development? Their mules must have had these issues. It is astonishing to see this. We may never know how a problem like this made it into production, but it would be an engineering learning experience if we did.

Agree, and thus far, even Toyota doesn't know what's happening.
2023 TOYOTA BZ4X | NHTSA

Toyota received a field technical report from the Taiwan market indicating separation of the front left wheel from the vehicle. Toyota recovered the wheels and hub bolts from this vehicle for investigation.
Toyota then received two field technical reports from the U.S. market. One of the reports indicated loose hub bolts of the front left wheel and the other indicated a separation of the front left wheel from the vehicle. Toyota reviewed the production process at the vehicle assembly plant and did not identify any abnormalities on the hub bolt tightening history of these three vehicles. Toyota also reviewed the assembly process of the wheel and hub bolts at the assembly plant and did not identify any abnormalities. In addition, although damage was observed on the wheel recovered from the vehicle in the Taiwan market, the damage was believed to be a result of the wheel separating from the vehicle and the cause of the loosening of the hub bolts was not able to be identified. Toyota continued to investigate and conducted a driving test using mass production wheels and hub bolts that were tightened to specification. The testing showed that the hub bolts loosened under certain severe driving patterns.

 

[Oil4AsphaultOnly]

Agree, and thus far, even Toyota doesn't know what's happening.
2023 TOYOTA BZ4X | NHTSA

Toyota continued to investigate and conducted a driving test using mass production wheels and hub bolts that were tightened to specification. The testing showed that the hub bolts loosened under certain severe driving patterns.

How the heck can something be set to specifications and still fail within it's operating environment?!?! That says quite a bit about their engineering quality.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Supply constraints are terrific for margins. That's why cartels are so profitable (and generally illegal).

Stellantis is battling VW Group for #1 in European vehicle sales. EU 95g effectively requires 20% of vehicle sales to be EV, so the two are pretty close in EV sales as well. I haven't seen anyone in Europe really go beyond the quota yet, nor do I expect to. The next couple years will be very interesting because the quota barely moves after taking huge jumps in 2020 and 2021. S Curve fans could be in for a real disappointment.

Fiat bungled the EU 95g quotas early on and had to buy papal indulgences from Tesla. This was mostly the fault of Sergio Marchionne (RIP), and it led to PSA opportunistically swallowing FCA to form Stellantis. Tavares is a shrewd operator, but he's got a crazy assortment of brands which might need some thinning.

Outside of Europe VAG is much stronger, especially in China. Neither is a major player in the US, though Stellantis has a couple of strong brands in Jeep and Ram while VAG fills some nice high end niches with Porsche and Audi.

Super credits system for ZLEV ends this year. Each ZLEV is worth 1.33 vehicles. (was 1.67 in 2021 and 2 in 2020).
So, 2023 will still be more difficult than 2022.

 

[Discoducky]

Toyota continued to investigate and conducted a driving test using mass production wheels and hub bolts that were tightened to specification. The testing showed that the hub bolts loosened under certain severe driving patterns.

How the heck can something be set to specifications and still fail within it's operating environment?!?! That says quite a bit about their engineering quality.

Yep, I'm very interested to know how a car company can make upwards of 10M+ vehicles/year and then build one (a BEV) where the wheels fall off after a few miles while **SIMULTANEOUSLY** pushing/lobbying for legislation to support their hybrids (Manchin in West Virginia) which is anti-BEV.