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That's an exaggeration. The faster traffic goes 85ish when no coppers are around. Plenty of traffic, and all trucks, are going slower.
In particular, I would never average 85 through Indiana because I don't want a ticket.
I've heard the 5 door thing and have never understood why they say that. I mean people don't actually enter through it do they? It's not like those old station wagons with seats in the back (model S being an exception). For example, I wouldn't call my Prius 5 door, although it is a hatchback. Toyota dealers will call them 5 door hatchbacks.I see four doors and a hatchback.
Maybe there's a fifth door somewhere for the hamsters inside that power it, but I have yet to find it. Need to add more hamsters...
5-door is an advertising shortcut for "4-door hatchback". Keeps the word count down.
Wolverinegeoff
Member
Yes I remember driving through Ohio and Michigan when I lived up there and the cops would definitely pull you over for anything over 79mph or so. Same here in Florida, where you are safe 80 and below, but not a touch over.
Well, they're not trying to get you to cancel per se, just trying to get you to move up to an S. So if you do that, you'll be happy looking back at the Model 3 owners' inferior cars! But you'll also be sitting on top of $40k more in debt so there's that...
JeffK
Well-Known Member
I would think that except they are calling it "5-door hatchback"
Maybe they are counting the door for the gas cap... haha
JeffK
Well-Known Member
NW Indiana is a different beast... on 80/94 they make their money on Illinois drivers
sakimano
Active Member
I'm not sure that is fair to bank on with respect to the BMW M3 vs. M5 etc.
The current M5 trounces the current M3 in straight line acceleration. M5 traps 122-124 mph in the 1/4 mile while the M3 struggles to crack 118-118. In a race from a roll at say 50mph up the M5 would put buslengths on an M3/4.
The M5 is also just as quick from 0-60 mph although they're both similarly useless at this endeavour with RWD (relative to what they or their competitors do with AWD). This isn't restricted to the new generations either...this was the case E60 vs. E90/2 and E39 vs. E46.
The same is true with Audi. The same is true with AMG.
sakimano
Active Member
while 0-60 is a nice measure of sprint ability, it's not really the benchmark other than to AWD Tesla, Audi and Subaru owners lol. 1/4 mile ET and MPH is a more recognized benchmark for performance cars, or 0-100 mph...or 100 kmh-200 kmh. That's why I mentioned trap speeds (pertaining to the average speed of a car through the traps at the end of a 1/4 mile track).
While the tesla model S P100D with a full battery dominates all of earth from 0-60 mph, it should be noted that the rest of the AWD super sedan world (RS7/E63S/Panamera TurboS) is right beside it in all other Model S guises (or when the P100D is below 50%) both in terms of acceleration and pricing.
I will bet anyone a Coke that the model 3 is slower than the Model S. P75D model 3 vs. P100D model S. Tesla won't want to embarrass the $140,000 P100D buyer with a $75,000 pocket rocket that makes them look silly (and yes, I think a well equipped model 3 will be about $75,000).
p.s. here's Car and Driver's instrumented tests of the M3/4 and the M5.
2015 BMW M3 - Instrumented Test
2013 BMW M5 - Instrumented Test
M5 > M3 (significantly) in all accleration tests including 0-60mph
@sakimano Fair enough. However, my point was, BMW rates the M3 at 4.1 seconds from 0-100 kph, whereas M5 is rated by manufacturer at 4.3 seconds. This is unlike Audi, for which RS6 is quicker than RS4/5 in manufacturer specs. The point was not to discuss performance in general, but to discuss what relative performance could be expected between Model 3 and Model S, the siblings.
Having Tesla make a Performance Model 3 that is quicker in 0-100 kph in manufacturer specs would, thus, not be completely out of the question simply from a market precedence point of view. M3 does it, Tesla could have imitated this aspect of M3, it is no doubt a notable competitor for a Performance Model 3. (Whether or not realistic from a BEV point of view, who knows, Roadster is said to become quicker...)
Obviously Model 3 will be slower than Model S. Elon Musk has said so. And he never lies... I am discussing what could have been. Not what will be. All your other points are of course perfectly valid and highlight some of the upsides of ICEs.
Having Tesla make a Performance Model 3 that is quicker in 0-100 kph in manufacturer specs would, thus, not be completely out of the question simply from a market precedence point of view. M3 does it, Tesla could have imitated this aspect of M3, it is no doubt a notable competitor for a Performance Model 3. (Whether or not realistic from a BEV point of view, who knows, Roadster is said to become quicker...)
Obviously Model 3 will be slower than Model S. Elon Musk has said so. And he never lies...
I am discussing what could have been. Not what will be. All your other points are of course perfectly valid and highlight some of the upsides of ICEs.
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Something some folks don't realize. In real world driving situations where sudden acceleration is a safety issue, and you don't get to powerbrake it, or downshift, or build boost, a "6 second" EV acts more like a "4 second" ICE. Passing on mountain roads, getting out from behind a stalled car, a very short uphill onramp, getting over to safely reach a offramp you didn't see early enough, etc.
The 0.5 seconds of lag the ICE has only allows it to start building power which climbs to redline, then shifts, and climbs again. The EV just goes at 100% power right away.
A 5.9 second EV is going to feel like a rocket to most drivers. People think that about 10 second EVs sometimes, "wow! it has punch, eh?" because the lag and downshifting isn't there.
The 0.5 seconds of lag the ICE has only allows it to start building power which climbs to redline, then shifts, and climbs again. The EV just goes at 100% power right away.
A 5.9 second EV is going to feel like a rocket to most drivers. People think that about 10 second EVs sometimes, "wow! it has punch, eh?" because the lag and downshifting isn't there.
JeffK
Well-Known Member
sakimano
Active Member
I get it totally. and that was funny about Elon@sakimano Fair enough. However, my point was, BMW rates the M3 at 4.1 seconds from 0-100 kph, whereas M5 is rated by manufacturer at 4.3 seconds. This is unlike Audi, for which RS6 is quicker than RS4/5 in manufacturer specs. The point was not to discuss performance in general, but to discuss what relative performance could be expected between Model 3 and Model S, the siblings.
Obviously Model 3 will be slower than Model S. Elon Musk has said so. And he never lies...
Will be interesting to see the new RS4/5 performance though. The B8 generation is basically a B7 RS4 with DSG transmission...and the B7 launched in 2006. So that's a tough battle vs. the monstrous RS6. The new architecture of half litre cylinders and turbocharging means the new RS4/5 should be pretty serious, and with Audi under-rating the heck out of everything lately, I wouldn't be surprised to see it 500hp/500tq and with AWD and 3700 lbs to move, that will be fun. I've had a B7 RS4 for 7 years and love it. Can't seem to part with it.
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