Tesla blog yesterday repeats 215 mile range estimate

[azred]

As a software-limited S60 owner, I haven't found the 210 mile range estimate very problematic but we usually fly for long distance travel. But on my limited road trips requiring Supercharging I definitely could have used another 20-30 miles of range. On the other hand, the fact the physical battery is actually a 75 limits Supercharging taper and allows a full 210 mile charge without unduly tying up a Supercharger.

The base 3 with 215 mile rated range would obviously be similar 100% range to my S, but Supercharging to 100% with taper will be much slower. Superchargers will surely be overtaxed as 3 comes online and that means we shouldn't charge to 100% when others are waiting. But if you only Supercharge a 215 range car to 80 or 90% while long distance traveling, range anxiety won't be an imagined disorder. Hopefully, the larger 3 battery won't carry the same hefty price of the 60 to 75 upgrade. I would consider the base 3 battery if it had a software upgrade option for the future, but that seems unlikely. So I guess that means springing for the upgraded battery even if that jacks the price up considerably.

 

[jelloslug]

That's one of the reasons I want the AWD version. Not only can I easily hit the EPA ratings in my 60D, I can easlly get ~235 miles going with the flow of traffic on the expressway.

 

[North75]

I suspect sticking with the 215m number for now is another part of the continuing effort to anti-sell future model 3 for current model S.
We won't know real range until official numbers are released.

 

[McRat]

215mi range would not affect me at all, and it is what I was expecting. Waking up each morning with 215mi of range is plenty for how I use cars. This is comparable to the MS60 which has many happy owners.

 

[Topher]

But if you only Supercharge a 215 range car to 80 or 90% while long distance traveling, range anxiety won't be an imagined disorder.

There is no one point where all people get range anxiety. If the base battery size doesn't work for you personally, (at the final released spec, and your personal driving habits). Get the upgraded battery. Simple.

Thank you kindly.

 

[flamingoezz]

215 isn't really 215. first, you shouldn't charge to 100%. i've heard anything from 80-90% should be your real limit. After a year or two, you can expect degradation to take a few miles off that number. Then if you're in the northeast like me, a cold day will take a dozen or more miles off a long trip. Suddenly 215 turns into 165 miles.

Sure, daily commuter this 215 base is fine for most, but long trips or main family car, I would upgrade the battery, especially in colder climates.

215mi range would not affect me at all, and it is what I was expecting. Waking up each morning with 215mi of range is plenty for how I use cars. This is comparable to the MS60 which has many happy owners.

 

[MP3Mike]

And of course they didn't say it would be 215 miles. They said: "a good range of at least 215 miles for our starting model."

Just holding the cards close to their vest. Elon has said there problem right now is not selling the Model 3 they are anti-selling the Model 3 because they already have enough reservations to keep them busy making Model 3s for a long time.

 

[FlatSix911]

Tesla is managing expectations for the Model 3 ... and trying to boost sales of the Model S

Model S or Model 3 The Tesla Team April 6, 2017

With a new model coming this year, we know our customers will have questions about which car is right for them. One question we’ve been asked is, “Should I trade in my Model S for a Model 3?” While Model 3 will be our newest car, it isn’t “Version 3” or the next generation Tesla. Our higher priced premium models still include the most advanced technology and the best driving experience we have to offer.

Model S is the leader in its class in every category, which is why 94 percent of our owners say they will buy Model S again. It has a 5-star safety rating and will continue to be our flagship Model with more range, more acceleration, more power, more passenger and cargo room, more displays (two) and more customization choices. With Ludicrous+, Model S has a zero-to-60 time of 2.28 seconds as measured by Motor Trend, making it the fastest accelerating production car in the world. Model S will also continue to be the longest-range vehicle we offer, capable of a landmark 335 miles on a single charge, meaning you can travel from Los Angeles to San Francisco nonstop.

Model 3 is smaller, simpler, and will come with far fewer options than Model S, but it makes driving feel effortless and offers a good range of at least 215 miles for our starting model.

At the foundation of every Tesla is safety – keeping our customers safe is part of every decision we make. In addition, every Tesla vehicle (Model 3 too) comes standard with full self-driving hardware which, through over-the-air software upgrades, will enable a Tesla to be substantially safer than a human driver. As we continue to test and validate new features, customers can expect an increasing number of updates to be rolled out to their cars this year. And while innovation at Tesla will never stop, the very best vehicles we make are already available for purchase and on the road today.

 

[azred]

And of course they didn't say it would be 215 miles. They said: "a good range of at least 215 miles for our starting model."

Just holding the cards close to their vest. Elon has said there problem right now is not selling the Model 3 they are anti-selling the Model 3 because they already have enough reservations to keep them busy making Model 3s for a long time.

You may be right but since they are close to production why would they even mention the 215 number again in yesterday's blog if it isn't accurate? I see others who have posted in this thread have differing opinions but if you plan to do more than local driving, an 80 or 90% charge on that battery may be dicey. I have been Supercharging my software-limited 60 to 100% not only because it doesn't have much taper but also because the few times I have Supercharged, most of the stalls were empty. But those days will end as 3's proliferate. (The 215 number may not bother most people but I sure think it's odd that many more people seem to be worried about glancing to the side to check their speed. I glance at my S' center screen frequently and it's no big deal. In fact, I find it much easier to check/change songs and stations looking at the huge center screen rather than the small screen tucked behing the steering wheel.)

 

[Big-T]

215 isn't really 215. first, you shouldn't charge to 100%. i've heard anything from 80-90% should be your real limit. After a year or two, you can expect degradation to take a few miles off that number. Then if you're in the northeast like me, a cold day will take a dozen or more miles off a long trip. Suddenly 215 turns into 165 miles.

Sure, daily commuter this 215 base is fine for most, but long trips or main family car, I would upgrade the battery, especially in colder climates.

Ah of course OP says he's on a software limited 60, so he should be able to charge to 100% of his available pack because that's not actually maxing out the charge. One of the advantages of a software limited pack, I think.

 

[WileyTheMan]

You may be right but since they are close to production why would they even mention the 215 number again in yesterday's blog if it isn't accurate?

Two reasons that I can think of:

1) Upselling the Model S, as previously stated.
2) They are not going to tip their cards on actual range until the final Model 3 reveal. Hence keeping the "at least" line in there.

I hope the base battery does at least match the Bolt's EPA. We shall see in a few months, but for me personally it doesn't matter since I'm super-sizing my battery. And getting the apple pie.

 

[MiamiNole]

I suspect sticking with the 215m number for now is another part of the continuing effort to anti-sell future model 3 for current model S.
We won't know real range until official numbers are released.

Couldn't have said it any better myself. Although I do find the way they are anti-selling the Model 3 as a simpler car with "far" fewer options a bit disturbing. This IS supposed to be a car that competes with the BMW 3-series and Audi A4, right? I don't recall ever hearing that class of car described in such a manner. I really do hope this is more anti-selling and not lowering our expectations of what we are really getting with the Model 3. Being a fully-electric vehicle is not THE reason I'm buying a Model 3, and I still fully expect to have a "compelling" car that competes with a 3-series.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Couldn't have said it any better myself. Although I do find the way they are anti-selling the Model 3 as a simpler car with "far" fewer options a bit disturbing. This IS supposed to be a car that competes with the BMW 3-series and Audi A4, right? I don't recall ever hearing that class of car described in such a manner. I really do hope this is more anti-selling and not lowering our expectations of what we are really getting with the Model 3. Being a fully-electric vehicle is not THE reason I'm buying a Model 3, and I still fully expect to have a "compelling" car that competes with a 3-series.

The reason they are doing it is obvious. They have enough reservations that it'll take them probably a year or two to work through the back log. For the same reason, after the launch they pretty much halted all promotion of the Model 3. They simply don't need more demand at the moment. When production goes in stride and they work through a good amount of the reservations, they can start promoting the Model 3 more.

This doesn't necessarily contradict with being a competitive car with a 3-series.

 

[eisbock]

"Model S or Model 3 -- which is right for you?

The Model S comes with all these great features and is an awesome car. If we had the choice, we'd pick Model S all day long. It's just so great.

And then there's Model 3. Yeah, you don't want that."

-Tesla

 

[MiamiNole]

The reason they are doing it is obvious. They have enough reservations that it'll take them probably a year or two to work through the back log. For the same reason, after the launch they pretty much halted all promotion of the Model 3. They simply don't need more demand at the moment. When production goes in stride and they work through a good amount of the reservations, they can start promoting the Model 3 more.

This doesn't necessarily contradict with being a competitive car with a 3-series.

Oh, I most definitely know why they are doing it. That's why I agreed with the person I originally quoted. I specifically was talking about the way they are anti-selling the 3. And I only said I find it a "bit" disturbing, and only because of all the talk of it being "compelling", competing with the 3-series and A4, and constantly being said on this forum to be in a totally different class of car when compared to the Bolt. So just slightly eyebrow-raising to hear the 3 being down sold like this, even if it is a deliberate strategy. And of course, I'm just speaking for right now. As soon as the final specs are revealed and the configurator is opened, I'm sure the hypebeasting will return to critical mass.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I agree that the mention of 215 miles means nothing, though it can also be considered a part of the anti-selling. But historically (and logically), companies will stick to announced figures and specs, until such a time they announce new ones. Model X was being marketed with the old images and old battery specs long after we knew from mules etc. that changes were likely - they kept to using the old facts right up until the point where they were ready to publish new facts. Mentioning 215+ miles now, while possible that the range has not changed, can not be viewed as confirmation of anything. It is just re-using the already published (2016 unveil) spec...

As for the anti-selling, I agree it is silly and terribly short-sighted of Tesla. Audi or BMW would never anti-sell their lower-end cars like that, that is detrimental to the entire brand. Now Tesla themselves has labelled the Model 3 as a bit crap, really. Weird and short-sighted, that is what it is. And meme material.

 

[ikjadoon]

215 isn't really 215. first, you shouldn't charge to 100%. i've heard anything from 80-90% should be your real limit. After a year or two, you can expect degradation to take a few miles off that number. Then if you're in the northeast like me, a cold day will take a dozen or more miles off a long trip. Suddenly 215 turns into 165 miles.

Sure, daily commuter this 215 base is fine for most, but long trips or main family car, I would upgrade the battery, especially in colder climates.

And, for what it's worth, on the Model S 60 non-D (though should not as bad on the Model 3):

Turning on AC: loss of 13 miles of range
Driving at 70mph instead of 60mph: loss of 43 miles of range

Range calculator at tesla.com

 

[CT200h]

The way they said 215 miles for our starting model. That might mean the first production cars, instead of what most think that it means the base car, and a higher range version will be optional out of the gate.

So keeping the build simple , fewer options , RWD only, 1 battery size only?

Until AWD arrives ?

 

[AnxietyRanger]

The way they said 215 miles for our starting model. That might mean the first production cars, instead of what most think that it means the base car, and a higher range version will be optional out of the gate.

So keeping the build simple , fewer options , RWD only, 1 battery size only?

Until AWD arrives ?

I don't think we can see it as confirmation of anything 215 or more is just the spec they have been touting in public. The reality may be vastly different - or, of course, it can be the same too. But the 215+ mention is not a confirmation of anything, judging by past Tesla mannerisms.

As for starting with the smaller battery pack, I do not see it, for two reasons: they can charge a higher price premium for the bigger pattery and likely show a (better?) range improvement over Bolt. It matters for bragging rights in the U.S... Starting with the big battery makes sense. Also there was some talk of that being the plan, though unconfirmed. (Whether a smaller battery option is offered from day 1 too is, of course, unknown.)

 

[gregincal]

215 isn't really 215. first, you shouldn't charge to 100%. i've heard anything from 80-90% should be your real limit.

No, no, no, no, no. The whole point is that normally you don't need to go 215 miles, so you only charge to 80-90%. When you need the range, you charge to 100%. Charging to 100% doesn't really hurt the battery, it's storing the car at 100% that hurts the battery.