Tesla branded solar power storage unit

[Jack6591]

I've always looked at electrical billing like a speedometer (demand billing) and an odometer (kilowatt hour (kwh)).

The kwh billing is simply the amount of power consumed.

The demand bill is like a speedometer, it is an instantaneous measurement (actually measured in fifteen minute blocks), of peak power consumption. The idea being that the utility must invest in the equipment and infrastructure to meet the peak demand even if it's for a very short period of time.

Demand billing is a substantive part of most industrial and many commercial businesses electric bill. The ability to shave demand charges will be a tremendous business opportunity. Expect the utilities to push back hard. It's their bread and butter.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

I've always looked at electrical billing like a speedometer (demand billing) and an odometer (kilowatt hour (kwh)).

The kwh billing is simply the amount of power consumed.

The demand bill is like a speedometer, it is an instantaneous measurement (actually measured in fifteen blocks), of peak power consumption. The idea being that the utility must invest in the equipment and infrastructure to meet the peak demand even if it's for a very short period of time.

Demand billing is a substantive part of most industrial and many commercial businesses electric bill. The ability to shave demand charges will be a tremendous business opportunity. Expect the utilities to push back hard. It's their bread and butter.

I don't see they'd push back. They give incentives to businesses to help cut peak use. The distributor buys annual or multi-year contracts with suppliers and makes up the rest on the spot market. Then, as you note, peak demand determines the distribution capacity. Anything that flattens the curve helps distributors.

 

[Jack6591]

I don't see they'd push back. They give incentives to businesses to help cut peak use. The distributor buys annual or multi-year contracts with suppliers and makes up the rest on the spot market. Then, as you note, peak demand determines the distribution capacity. Anything that flattens the curve helps distributors.

Californian utilities hit out against battery stored solar power: pv-magazine

Ultimately, I am convinced California will legislate in favor of renewable energy and energy storage. California will become the paradigm for the rest of country.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Californian utilities hit out against battery stored solar power: pv-magazine

Ultimately, I am convinced California will legislate in favor of renewable energy and energy storage. California will become the paradigm for the rest of country.

That's only because the pricing rules are messed up, including net metering and renewable purchasing mandates skewing the market in favor of home solar. They're pushing back against something that causes them to lose money, rather than something that hits profits. With a natural market, home solar wouldn't be anywhere near as good for consumers and backup systems would certainly not allow the current lucrative arbitrage. The utility only has to aloow the feed-in because of legislation to force renewable feed in. Also, because of legislation battery systems allow the consumer to arbitrage using grid power which they should not be able to do. That is why utilities want to ensure that they only have to pay for generated power, which is not a pushback against the battery system itself. The whole pricing system needs an overhaul.

 

[jerry33]

That's only because the pricing rules are messed up, including net metering and renewable purchasing mandates skewing the market in favor of home solar. They're pushing back against something that causes them to lose money, rather than something that hits profits. With a natural market, home solar wouldn't be anywhere near as good for consumers and backup systems would certainly not allow the current lucrative arbitrage. The utility only has to aloow the feed-in because of legislation to force renewable feed in. Also, because of legislation battery systems allow the consumer to arbitrage using grid power which they should not be able to do. That is why utilities want to ensure that they only have to pay for generated power, which is not a pushback against the battery system itself. The whole pricing system needs an overhaul.

Without strict regulation, you end up with Enron. One way to avoid strict regulation (so that you don't lose conservative votes) is to encourage individual power generation. The pricing is messed up but it's messed up for a reason (which may or may not be a good reason depending upon your views).

 

[roblab]

We have a full 15.1Kw solar array on the roof that yields an electric bill of minus $1500.00 a year!! The problem is it is a grid connected system and there is no storage/battery backup. When there is a power outage (think hurricane here in Florida) the inverters shut down until the grid is restored. Up until now a lead acid battery bank is size and cost prohibitive based on a four to five year life expectancy and the nne to power critical items that include at least one of the homes 4 ton AC units. This Tesla solution with a 10+ year life and far smaller volume than lead acid may be just the thing I need.

Don't know how it would work with you, but I have roughly 8 kW of battery, PbA, sealed glass mat on my grid tied 12 kW system. All the information I had read before buying these were giving an expected life span of EIGHTEEN YEARS, not "5". As they are not used a lot, and not heavily, they don't die quickly. They are also NO maintenance.

I would wonder if the home with the 4 ton AC could downsize one room to a small unit (my small ductless heat pump uses about 5 amps of 120 v)

The main advantage is size, but at a home, a battery bank can be shoved into a space on the back porch and never noticed, never touched. Mine is boarded up with screws, no doors or access other than vent screens.

I have had my system running for a little over ten years and the batteries still take full voltage (54 volts on a 48 volt string). They are managed by Outback's MX80 Charge Controllers. The batteries cost about $3000 bucks back when I got them, and I think they are cheaper now.

Just sayin, check around. Tesla is probably a good deal, but there are options that work NOW and do a great job.

 

[Doug_G]

Californian utilities hit out against battery stored solar power: pv-magazine

Ultimately, I am convinced California will legislate in favor of renewable energy and energy storage. California will become the paradigm for the rest of country.

From the article:

However, the three utility companies argue that such storage systems could, in theory, be used fraudulently. Consumers with solar panels could fill their batteries directly with power sourced from the grid, and then send it back under a false "clean" label.

Seems to me that the power utilities ought to be paying people to do exactly that, to help balance the grid. They're missing an opportunity here...

 

[astrotoy]

I was a relatively early customer of Solar City, installing a system in early 2009. At that time, the financial crisis had put Solar City in a bind. Their major sources of funds for their lease to own program had dried up and they were offering big discounts to customers who could pay cash for their systems. It also meant that we would get the federal, state and PG&E rebates directly instead of them going to Solar City. Not sure whether they have continued, but at the time PG&E was giving rebates because solar would reduce their energy generation needs exactly at their peak demand times and reduce the need for them to build extra capacity for those peak periods. Since the capital costs, including financing, of building power plants is one of their biggest costs, reducing this is a major benefit to utilities. IIRC, they were also pushed by the California Public Utility Commission which regulates their rates.