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Tesla broke my Autopilot -> Don't UPDATE!

Discussion in 'Model S' started by kgroschi, Jun 15, 2018.

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Will Tesla fix this issue?

  1. Yes

    24 vote(s)
    42.1%
  2. No

    33 vote(s)
    57.9%
  1. kgroschi

    kgroschi Car Reviewer from Germany

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    Yesterday I updated my Model S AP1 to 2018.21.9 and it was the biggest mistake I could have made. On my way to work today (50 mile commute) I noticed that the AP asks me to put my hands on the wheel precisely every 21 seconds. That is INSANE if you ask me. When I picked up the car back in 2014 I took the car down to San Diego with my friends, and since I happen to be a motor journalist from Germany, really tested the autopilot back then. We clocked over 4 minutes on AP without having to put the hands on the wheel.

    I absolutely love the 90D. It convinced me the more I drove it of what a great car it is, and I was planning on buying it out once my lease is up next year. If they won't remove that 20 second timer however, I am most definitely done with the car and will most likely return the lease. Because other brands have similar systems with similar timers, so if something that was really a key feature to me in the Tesla, is no longer available, I don't see the point.

    I know there will even be here some guys again that will claim that having the hands on the wheel is necessary and that the AP is not reliable enough.... guys, I drive 2000 miles a month with that car, 90% on AP1. I've never had a close call. I had moments where the AP failed, but I already expected it to fail moments before it happened because of the road conditions ahead. The system works very well, but we all know that the drivers still need to pay attention to the road and shouldn't play candy crush while driving.

    I am hoping someone has some insider information as to if this is only temporary or if this is the direction Tesla seems to be going because of some really stupid accidents that were caused by Human Error.

    Thanks
     

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  2. HX_Guy

    HX_Guy Member

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    Heh, dont mean to laugh, but welcome to life of an AP2 driver. Its basically been this way for us forever more or less.
     
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  3. kgroschi

    kgroschi Car Reviewer from Germany

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    Really? You guys have had constant nagging before? I thought it got to AP1 levels of performance a while ago.
     
  4. RichardL

    RichardL Member

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    I believe there are one or two other threads about this release and this issue - you might want to look at those
     
  5. kgroschi

    kgroschi Car Reviewer from Germany

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    I am just working my way through them. Thanks. I just want Tesla to be aware of this. Does anyone know if there is any way the service center can downgrade your car to the last version. Maybe if you make a little donation to the service advisor lol.
     
  6. bonnie

    bonnie Oil is for sissies.

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    #6 bonnie, Jun 15, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2018
    @kgroschi - you can thank the people who've been in accidents using AP for the more frequent nags. (I'd be willing to bet that a certain gov't agency required a more frequent check in.) You can especially thank those who have posted in threads re how to get around AP nags - because eventually they'll be caught up in a bad accident & we will all pay the price with even more constraints.

    You say you've driven 2000 miles without a problem -- until there is a problem and then we see posts like You You Xue's. He used AP extensively, even talked about falling asleep repeatedly while using it. And then he got in a bad accident & he was all over social media blaming Tesla.

    In this case, Tesla isn't to blame for what we're dealing with right now. It's all our fellow drivers who decided they knew better than Tesla engineering regarding reliability and predictability of AP. It's why we cannot have nice things.
     
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  7. HX_Guy

    HX_Guy Member

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    Yes, performance is one thing, and that may be on par more or less, but the nagging has always been much more from my understanding. Not quite as bad as now, but we'd get a first nag about 30 seconds in and then the flashing about 15 second later I believe, with the beeping 15 seconds after that...its always been like that. Driving 4 minutes with no nag is unheard of in an AP2 car.
     
  8. David29

    David29 Supporting Member

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    So why don't you keep your hands on the wheel? Or even one hand? It takes little pressure.
    i do not understand all the complaining this particular change has generated. I was on the road yesterday for a couple of hours with AP running and never got a nag.
     
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  9. kgroschi

    kgroschi Car Reviewer from Germany

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    I do agree that legally and publicly Tesla is in a tough spot right now thanks to some idiots who clearly shouldn't be driving a car at all. I never ever even closely felt asleep behind the wheel of my car. I have however in my M5 on a long trip through the Death Valley. That was my last close call I had back in 2008. Why? Because I was damn exhausted from a 10-hour drive holding the wheel constantly.

    The number 1 reason why I have a Tesla is because of the AP and the fact that it would let you rest your hands on your lap while monitoring the road. It's not rocket science. Holding the wheel is no indicator of paying attention whatsoever. If I get nagged all the time, I can just buy an S Class which does the same nagging every 20 seconds but has a luxurious interior. Tesla is hurting itself with this.
     
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  10. ibdb

    ibdb Any excuse for a road trip

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    I'm half way through a 2,000+ mile road trip in my AP1 Model S. I have had one warning during the first 1K miles - during a long, flat, straight stretch of mostly empty freeway while I was watching a crop duster swoop around power lines that parallel the highway. Unless there's some calibration issue out there, I just don't understand all the complaints about the AP update. It is not a 100% hands off system and was never meant to be.
     
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  11. bonnie

    bonnie Oil is for sissies.

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    Hang in there. As more features become available & we work towards self-driving, I suspect you'll have exactly what you (and most of us) want. In the meantime, kick ass on the people who are ruining it for all of us.
     
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  12. kgroschi

    kgroschi Car Reviewer from Germany

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    #12 kgroschi, Jun 15, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2018
    Ya but it was up to the driver to decide. As I said, when I got the car you could easily do 5 minutes without a nag. Did all of the sudden hundreds of Teslas crash into walls? Didn't think so. Issue is that a few people stopped paying attention (not just remove hands from the wheel). Deadly accidents happen all the time with people having hands on the wheel. I got hit 10 days ago from a lady who had her hands on the wheel but didn't pay attention and rear-ended me.
     
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  13. HX_Guy

    HX_Guy Member

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    I think people are over simplifying this. Its not about having your hand on the steering wheel, its about having to actively let the car know that youre hand is on the steering wheel.

    I tested this this morning, I got the nag, and grabbed the wheel. I didnt move the wheel, but I was firmly holding it. Of course the nag did not go away, because it wants you to actually turn the wheel a bit, to apply torque to it. Thats dumb and annoying.
     
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  14. MIT_S60

    MIT_S60 Member

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    I suggest you check out Cadillac SuperCruise. It uses a camera to track your head and scanners to track your eyes to make sure you're looking forward onto the road. This replaces the steering wheel check, for a truly hands-free "autopilot" (for others, note how I say hands-free, not attention-free). The CT6 might be a good option once your Model S lease is up.

    Unfortunately Tesla failed to foresee the requirement to check the driver's attention early on with AutoPilot (because, you know, people are humans after all), and was forced to do "something" to please regulators, hence the steering wheel nags. Cadillac had the foresight to recognize this, hence used head/eye tracking to verify the driver is at least looking forward and not asleep or on their phone.
     
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  15. bonnie

    bonnie Oil is for sissies.

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    Prediction: We will have countless threads with titles like 'TESLA IS INVADING MY PRIVACY!!!' and 'How to Defeat the in Cabin Camera!' and 'I'm Not Buying a Tesla Because of THIS'.

    I'm fairly sure that's the way we're going & I'm REALLY sure that there will be more people complaining about that than the nags. :)
     
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  16. kgroschi

    kgroschi Car Reviewer from Germany

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    Thanks but there is no way I will buy a Cadillac (no offense). I'd get an E63 or something. Yes, I will have to steer it. But they didn't downgrade their car over time like Tesla just did.
     
  17. MIT_S60

    MIT_S60 Member

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    I agree with you on all your points. At some point regulation will step in to attempt to put some rules around AutoPilot like driver assistance tools, and I can't imagine the steering wheel torque method will win over the head/eye tracking approach.

    No problem, just pointing out that Cadillac is the only one offering a "hands-free" version of AutoPilot, with the requirement of using head/eye tracking to solve the "is the driver paying attention" problem (although that will still not actually be fixed, since someone can be looking forward with their hands on the steering wheel needlessly applying torque but not paying attention).
     
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  18. PhilDavid

    PhilDavid Member

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    You really can't blame Tesla for this. They have had to deal with people literally killing themselves by not paying attention and misusing Autopilot.

    As for your desire to buy an S Class, we came from a W222 S Class and let me tell you that after owning a Tesla, that Mercedes piece of finest German Engineering is an ancient relic compared to all the features we love in our Tesla. Silent seamless instant torque without noise and vibration, try that in an S Class as it belches fumes.

    Also while the S Class will get worse with time, the Tesla will get better. As for AP2 in your car, we've seen significant improvements over the last 6 months and we will see significant improvements over the next 6 months. In the meantime pay attention, hold your steering wheel like you are supposed to, and be safe.
     
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  19. alcibiades

    alcibiades Member

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    Do we condemn people who use Autopilot Buddy because they are sick of being nagged even though their hands are on the wheel?

    I'm having a tough time keeping track of the righteousness. Sorry!
     
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  20. kev1n

    kev1n Member

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    i dont get what the big deal is with all these posts.

    i use autopilot daily and keep at least one hand on the wheel, it wont nag you. this isnt hands free driving, get over it. lol
     
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