Yes, but how would I get the loaner or the rental? You can't put it in someone else's name.
True....if you would have to leave it there for more than one day.
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Yes, but how would I get the loaner or the rental? You can't put it in someone else's name.
Ok, I will agree with you. Strictly speaking not all cars will be in for fixes, only the vast majority of them. Still, considering that majority of the fleet is less than one year old, that services are not required (and expensive), and the waits are horrendous so doing things like changing tires makes so much more sense to do at an independent shop, it all leads to the conclusion that Tesla cars need a lot of repairs.This is a big jump to a conclusion. I would have taken mine to a service center for an alignment (general service) if I wasn’t forced to drive out of state because of Michigan laws. Now it’s possible that the majority are in for “fixes”. But certainly not all.
First, depreciation matters. Most people have money because they spend it carefully. That said, I actually considered switching to Audi eTron less than a month ago, sadly the discussion with the dealer died at the yellow screen - they are not at all interested in trading in a car with a yellow screen which Tesla refuses to fix (and there may not be a permanent fix). Maybe that's Elon's idea of retaining customers - sell expensive cars which no other dealer wants to trade-in, customer lock-in!Why seriously haven’t you sold your Tesla yet and bought something else? If you purchased 4 of them, I would be surprised if depreciation is truly your reason for keeping the vehicle. Do you prefer to just keep yourself in a perpetual state of personal hell for some reason if you are that disgruntled?
Uhmm, no, not within the first year of the jump. All those newly mass produced cars do not require service, so the only way they plug up service centers is if they require repairs. The waits around the country went up 4x+, while the total volume of cars only doubled, and more than half of that volume is brand new so should not be visiting service at all yet.Going from a low volume car manufacturer to a mass produced company is why service centers are probably packed to the gills.
Again, not true at all. If they had the most flawless record, all these newly produced cars would not need service for at least a couple of years, if not longer considering there is no servicing required anymore. I've driven Toyotas, Hondas, Porsche for many years before they needed their first repairs, so if Tesla had such "most flawless record" as you say, there would be no problem with service right now.A Tesla could have the most flawless record on the market, but the sheer math is against them. The company went from producing 20000 cars in a year to over 20000 cars a month in a very short period of time.
The waits went from a week or less, to a month at both large centers around Seattle. There is no more live person to talk to either on the phone. In other places, like MA, the waits have blow up even more. They don't even do shop scheduling anymore, once you arrive for your appointment, they triage you, then you leave your car to sit on the parking lot to get into the shop - could be same say, could be a few days, told me there is no way to schedule actual time in the shop - this results in a 1hr repair lasting up to 4 days. Oh, and there are no loaners anymore either. Btw, I feel sorry for the people working there, they are so overwhelmed and they have to represent a company with such stupid policies like "yellow screen is normal, not covered under warranty" or "yea, 1hr fix, but may take 4 days, no you can't take it and bring it back when we have a shop opening" or "sorry, no loaners, and Enterprise also ran out of ICE rentals, so we'll pay for your Lyft to get you home and bring you back in 4 days". Any BMW dealer running service like this would be out of business in no time.I also don’t think the service wait times are that out of the ordinary. Anytime I schedule my BMW for service, emergency or routine, it needs to be done in advance and sometimes they hold my car longer than they estimate. The experience isn’t that much different.
Ha... He's already saying that. He claims Tesla's with FSD will be worth up to $330K each. FSD and robo taxis are supposed happen next year, so someone on twitter asked whether Tesla will no longer sell to customers at current prices (makes no sense to sell a Model 3 at $35K if it's worth $330K, right), Elon replied yes, then corrected himself that they will, just at the higher prices. So he's already planning not to bother with consumer cars, because no way people are going to shell out even half of $330K for a Model 3 for example.What will Tesla do when MB, a real place that treats customers like royalty, brings their inevitable option to market? Lord Elon will say we weren't worthy enough?
Ok, I will agree with you. Strictly speaking not all cars will be in for fixes, only the vast majority of them. Still, considering that majority of the fleet is less than one year old, that services are not required (and expensive), and the waits are horrendous so doing things like changing tires makes so much more sense to do at an independent shop, it all leads to the conclusion that Tesla cars need a lot of repairs.
First, depreciation matters. Most people have money because they spend it carefully. That said, I actually considered switching to Audi eTron less than a month ago, sadly the discussion with the dealer died at the yellow screen - they are not at all interested in trading in a car with a yellow screen which Tesla refuses to fix (and there may not be a permanent fix). Maybe that's Elon's idea of retaining customers - sell expensive cars which no other dealer wants to trade-in, customer lock-in!
It's been 4 weeks for few months now (last 3 times I went to schedule), not 2 weeks. And that's 4 weeks to even find out how much to do something like a tire change (so rather than do that, I went to Discount Tire instead, had it done next day while waiting vs. wait 4 weeks for an appointment, leave the car with Tesla for up to few days).But scheduling through the app and getting service within a couple weeks isn’t terrible to me (unless the car was completely out of commission).
All these take time, even if I chose to pay, it would take a month, the eTron I was considering was gone 2 days later, and to order a new one takes 6 months. When shopping for new cars, unless you're doing the custom order model, your trade-in has to be ready to go that day, not a month later (or longer if you go to court).If the screen is holding up the sale, then buy a new MCU. You will lose more in depreciation waiting for the screen fix or paid replacement than just buying a new one. Seems some have had luck going to court for a new screen. I suspect you would too.
Not necessarily, especially when it comes to expensive cars. Many states, including WA where I live, give you sales tax credit on the trade-in value, here it's ~10%. So, if I trade my car in for $60K, I would have to sell privately for above $66K to many any money, given that at this price level I would usually do escrow type service (have in the past paid a consignment place ~$1200 to handle the transaction, it has the added benefit that they can help the new buyer get financing too, which helps as most people don't pay cash for cars above $20K). So, bottom line is that selling privately isn't worth it for expensive cars, as I would have to get $10K more than trade-in value to make it worth while, and then I'm competing with CPO cars with OEM warranty (not talking only about Tesla here).If you are worried about depreciation, trading in is often the worst way to sell your car (as far as money goes). But convenience is another natter.
Yea, range was one of the things I wasn't crazy about, but could probably make it work (being much less efficient, there is actually a big battery in there (with large buffer on top too), but that also means that things like weather conditions don't affect it as much, it's already rated for bad efficiency - think gas mileage of a tank vs. SmartCar - heavy rain and wind will reduce the SmartCar range a lot more than a tank). The biggest thing I didn't like was a weird "bounce" effect, whenever I would come to a stop, the car would bounce backwards - probably something you can learn to avoid, but I wasn't crazy about it. I was also considering whether I want the higher ride (I grew to like the Model S sedan ride) and not having as fast acceleration (eTron is fast, but not Model S fast), but it was moot after realizing I can't make a deal on the spot anyways due to trade-in issues (can't negotiate as well either, unless you're willing to sign and drive immediately). I LOVED the eTron interior and inside tech by the way, makes Tesla look like a car from last century.I went to the Audi dealership to check out the etron a while back. I do think they are better built. But range, performance, charging network and usability is worse IMHO. But I am glad Audi made the vehicle. I’d take that over the ipace.
I LOVED the eTron interior and inside tech by the way, makes Tesla look like a car from last century.
Tesla giant screen is only usable for nav, everything else it's practically 2 screens (with top being always nav). Audi just split the giant screen into two (and top can do a lot more than nav, so you don't have to take your eyes far off the road to do most things)Hmmm....I liked the tactile responses of the display but I’d say the actual functionality And speed was much MUCH worse than a Tesla. Not to mention the much smaller screen. I found the seats to be not quite as comfortable. But definitely much better than the ipace.
I liked the seats, especially the ventilated part (didn't try the massage during test drive), but I agree, it's personal preference.I found the seats to be not quite as comfortable.
Yea, I'm sure there is small service center somewhere in the country where there are not a lot of Tesla's where the wait is even less. For me, it was 4+ weeks last 4 or 5 times I went to book (yea, I know, sounds weird to have to so many services in less than a year, but with Tesla that is par, it seems repair service still needed every few months, even if it's a relatively minor issue like trunk not closing due to a faulty latch - two visits for that one by the way, because they don't stock parts and don't predicatively pre-order based on problem description from customer - very upset wife when car wouldn't close trunk a couple of times when she went shopping, she started to not use the trunk at all in fear she'd be stranded with an open trunk).I guess the wait time is dependent on where you live. For me it is 13 days. (Just checked)
Elon has mentioned that he is aware of the need for even better service, but that he also cannot afford to build service centers and staff them with trained people prior to need as he does not have enough money to allocate.
Most every enthusiast auto manufacturer has forum posts about how bad their service is. Mercedes, Jaguar, BMW, Porsche, Ferrari, Lambo, Rolls Royce, Austin Martin. These customers have high expectations that they want trouble free cars, all parts in stocks, well trained and experienced technicians. Don't want to wait and have everything fixed on the first go. They want high end loaners and constant feedback as to the status of their repair. Unfortunately all those forums as well show multiple complaints from owners with unmet expectations.
Contrairy to what forum posts would have you to believe, Tesla is growing their service offering fast, their techs and managers are gaining experience. Huge efforts are being made to increase efficiencies and through-put. Perhaps forum posts tend to paint an even worse picture than the overall customer should expect.
Individuals with issues, of course effect them terribly, and it is reasonable for them to vent on forums, but maybe overall things are getting better and not as doomed as some posters would convey.
Don't you wish you had a few stealerships near you competing to fix your car? They would have people to talk to, and people to track the parts down for you because they actually make money doing warranty repairs, so they want it to happen, vs. for Tesla service each repair is a loss, because they share a P&L with the mothership. They have no incentive to tell you "yellowing screen in less than a year is normal wear and tear, not covered under warranty".Meanwhile, I'm waiting for my 3rd multiple parts replacements (same major parts, multiple times) in less than 50K miles with this S, and have heard exactly zero from the mobile service team who's supposed to handle that. Calls go to voicemail and are not returned. It's beyond unacceptable.
Tesla giant screen is only usable for nav, everything else it's practically 2 screens (with top being always nav). Audi just split the giant screen into two (and top can do a lot more than nav, so you don't have to take your eyes far off the road to do most things)
View attachment 429330
and added controls for passengers in the back, so for example I wouldn't have to take my eyes off the road for many seconds while trying to hit tiny Tesla UI buttons to control back seat heaters. The rear has separate climate controls too, which our Model S'es do not.
View attachment 429331
Audi screens also do A LOT more than Tesla. 360 Surround view for example, Android Auto or Apple Car Play and many other features so many Tesla owners have been dreaming about (yes, it has a HUD too).
I didn't have any issues with the speed of the UI, maybe I'm used to MCU1 (my wife drives the MCU2 car)? I did like the "handwrite destination with your finger while not looking" kind of cool, but only tried it with a short "Audi" to find the dealership. The tactile feedback is very nice too (as my MCU slows down, so many times I press a button, then press it again because nothing happens, then it turns out I pressed it twice).
I liked the seats, especially the ventilated part (didn't try the massage during test drive), but I agree, it's personal preference.
My experience is of course limited to one test drive, vs. many years of driving Teslas. Wouldn't mind renting an eTron for a week, but couldn't find any place that rents them yet.
Yea, I'm sure there is small service center somewhere in the country where there are not a lot of Tesla's where the wait is even less. For me, it was 4+ weeks last 4 or 5 times I went to book (yea, I know, sounds weird to have to so many services in less than a year, but with Tesla that is par, it seems repair service still needed every few months, even if it's a relatively minor issue like trunk not closing due to a faulty latch - two visits for that one by the way, because they don't stock parts and don't predicatively pre-order based on problem description from customer - very upset wife when car wouldn't close trunk a couple of times when she went shopping, she started to not use the trunk at all in fear she'd be stranded with an open trunk).
Every time I get in my car and one or both screens are all black, I tense up while waiting for things to boot up and think, "what if this is the time it won't boot, I'd be screwed for a month while waiting for diagnosis, then more while waiting for parts". I breathe a sigh of relief after everything boots up ok.
Tesla giant screen is only usable for nav, everything else it's practically 2 screens (with top being always nav). Audi just split the giant screen into two (and top can do a lot more than nav, so you don't have to take your eyes far off the road to do most things)
View attachment 429330
and added controls for passengers in the back, so for example I wouldn't have to take my eyes off the road for many seconds while trying to hit tiny Tesla UI buttons to control back seat heaters. The rear has separate climate controls too, which our Model S'es do not.
View attachment 429331
Audi screens also do A LOT more than Tesla. 360 Surround view for example, Android Auto or Apple Car Play and many other features so many Tesla owners have been dreaming about (yes, it has a HUD too).
I didn't have any issues with the speed of the UI, maybe I'm used to MCU1 (my wife drives the MCU2 car)? I did like the "handwrite destination with your finger while not looking" kind of cool, but only tried it with a short "Audi" to find the dealership. The tactile feedback is very nice too (as my MCU slows down, so many times I press a button, then press it again because nothing happens, then it turns out I pressed it twice).
I liked the seats, especially the ventilated part (didn't try the massage during test drive), but I agree, it's personal preference.
My experience is of course limited to one test drive, vs. many years of driving Teslas. Wouldn't mind renting an eTron for a week, but couldn't find any place that rents them yet.
Yea, I'm sure there is small service center somewhere in the country where there are not a lot of Tesla's where the wait is even less. For me, it was 4+ weeks last 4 or 5 times I went to book (yea, I know, sounds weird to have to so many services in less than a year, but with Tesla that is par, it seems repair service still needed every few months, even if it's a relatively minor issue like trunk not closing due to a faulty latch - two visits for that one by the way, because they don't stock parts and don't predicatively pre-order based on problem description from customer - very upset wife when car wouldn't close trunk a couple of times when she went shopping, she started to not use the trunk at all in fear she'd be stranded with an open trunk).
Every time I get in my car and one or both screens are all black, I tense up while waiting for things to boot up and think, "what if this is the time it won't boot, I'd be screwed for a month while waiting for diagnosis, then more while waiting for parts". I breathe a sigh of relief after everything boots up ok.
I regularly switch between cars at our place, I miss buttons, I really miss buttons in the Tesla.I LOVED the eTron interior and inside tech by the way, makes Tesla look like a car from last century.
I regularly switch between cars at our place, I miss buttons, I really miss buttons in the Tesla.
Driving one of our other cars a few days ago I was able to change the driver heater settings (temp, fan speed), my heated seat, and turn TCS off without taking my eyes off the road. Humans are good at tactile feel and remembering the position of buttons without looking, this is why everyone else still does it that way.
And of course actually have rain sensing wipers that aren't possessed was a nice change.
It's been 4 weeks for few months now (last 3 times I went to schedule), not 2 weeks. And that's 4 weeks to even find out how much to do something like a tire change (so rather than do that, I went to Discount Tire instead, had it done next day while waiting vs. wait 4 weeks for an appointment, leave the car with Tesla for up to few days).