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Tesla buy back my Model S 2018, should I get another Model S?

Discussion in 'Model S' started by Zen18, Jul 11, 2019.

  1. SO16

    SO16 Active Member

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    True....if you would have to leave it there for more than one day.
     
  2. jebinc

    jebinc M3 LR AWD w/FSD and white premium interior

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    Another thing driving up SC appointment wait times is Telsa's desire to lose less money by making Homelink an option that can only be installed by a SC - after delivery. At least that's true for cars produced after May 31st, as mine was. These are needless SC slot eaters... All Telsa has to do is allow selecting Homelink as one of the options when ordering the car. It's not the $300 that bothers me, it's the poor execution by Tesla to get an extra $300 that does.
     
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  3. 75Shappyt

    75Shappyt Member

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    I just called the service center here, and guess what?, it rang 3 times and some one picked up the phone, I have had my MS for over 2 years now, I never had a problem with service picking up the phone, getting my car in and out of service, I'm starting to think some of this stuff I read here may not be real, some must be, nothing is prefect, or maybe some owners like to make it sound worse then it really is. I'm just not sure. I'm just wondering why I never had a problem.
     
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  4. whitex

    whitex Active Member

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    #44 whitex, Jul 12, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019
    Ok, I will agree with you. Strictly speaking not all cars will be in for fixes, only the vast majority of them. Still, considering that majority of the fleet is less than one year old, that services are not required (and expensive), and the waits are horrendous so doing things like changing tires makes so much more sense to do at an independent shop, it all leads to the conclusion that Tesla cars need a lot of repairs.


    First, depreciation matters. Most people have money because they spend it carefully. That said, I actually considered switching to Audi eTron less than a month ago, sadly the discussion with the dealer died at the yellow screen - they are not at all interested in trading in a car with a yellow screen which Tesla refuses to fix (and there may not be a permanent fix). Maybe that's Elon's idea of retaining customers - sell expensive cars which no other dealer wants to trade-in, customer lock-in! :rolleyes:
     
  5. whitex

    whitex Active Member

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    Uhmm, no, not within the first year of the jump. All those newly mass produced cars do not require service, so the only way they plug up service centers is if they require repairs. The waits around the country went up 4x+, while the total volume of cars only doubled, and more than half of that volume is brand new so should not be visiting service at all yet.

    Again, not true at all. If they had the most flawless record, all these newly produced cars would not need service for at least a couple of years, if not longer considering there is no servicing required anymore. I've driven Toyotas, Hondas, Porsche for many years before they needed their first repairs, so if Tesla had such "most flawless record" as you say, there would be no problem with service right now.

    The waits went from a week or less, to a month at both large centers around Seattle. There is no more live person to talk to either on the phone. In other places, like MA, the waits have blow up even more. They don't even do shop scheduling anymore, once you arrive for your appointment, they triage you, then you leave your car to sit on the parking lot to get into the shop - could be same say, could be a few days, told me there is no way to schedule actual time in the shop - this results in a 1hr repair lasting up to 4 days. Oh, and there are no loaners anymore either. Btw, I feel sorry for the people working there, they are so overwhelmed and they have to represent a company with such stupid policies like "yellow screen is normal, not covered under warranty" or "yea, 1hr fix, but may take 4 days, no you can't take it and bring it back when we have a shop opening" or "sorry, no loaners, and Enterprise also ran out of ICE rentals, so we'll pay for your Lyft to get you home and bring you back in 4 days". Any BMW dealer running service like this would be out of business in no time.
     
  6. whitex

    whitex Active Member

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    Ha... He's already saying that. He claims Tesla's with FSD will be worth up to $330K each. FSD and robo taxis are supposed happen next year, so someone on twitter asked whether Tesla will no longer sell to customers at current prices (makes no sense to sell a Model 3 at $35K if it's worth $330K, right), Elon replied yes, then corrected himself that they will, just at the higher prices. So he's already planning not to bother with consumer cars, because no way people are going to shell out even half of $330K for a Model 3 for example.
     
  7. SO16

    SO16 Active Member

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    I suspect many of the service center issues are issues upon delivery that can usually be easily corrected. I do agree that these issues shouldn’t exist in the first place. But I really have no idea the severity of issues. Probably only Tesla knows that. I certainly couldn't expect Tesla to have service centers as abundant as Super chargers. Just not financially feasible. But scheduling through the app and getting service within a couple weeks isn’t terrible to me (unless the car was completely out of commission).

    Try vroom. See what kind of deal they will give you. That is who i1Tesla used for their Model S.

    If the screen is holding up the sale, then buy a new MCU. You will lose more in depreciation waiting for the screen fix or paid replacement than just buying a new one. Seems some have had luck going to court for a new screen. I suspect you would too.

    If you are worried about depreciation, trading in is often the worst way to sell your car (as far as money goes). But convenience is another natter.

    I went to the Audi dealership to check out the etron a while back. I do think they are better built. But range, performance, charging network and usability is worse IMHO. But I am glad Audi made the vehicle. I’d take that over the ipace.
     
  8. whitex

    whitex Active Member

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    #48 whitex, Jul 12, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019
    It's been 4 weeks for few months now (last 3 times I went to schedule), not 2 weeks. And that's 4 weeks to even find out how much to do something like a tire change (so rather than do that, I went to Discount Tire instead, had it done next day while waiting vs. wait 4 weeks for an appointment, leave the car with Tesla for up to few days).

    All these take time, even if I chose to pay, it would take a month, the eTron I was considering was gone 2 days later, and to order a new one takes 6 months. When shopping for new cars, unless you're doing the custom order model, your trade-in has to be ready to go that day, not a month later (or longer if you go to court).

    Not necessarily, especially when it comes to expensive cars. Many states, including WA where I live, give you sales tax credit on the trade-in value, here it's ~10%. So, if I trade my car in for $60K, I would have to sell privately for above $66K to many any money, given that at this price level I would usually do escrow type service (have in the past paid a consignment place ~$1200 to handle the transaction, it has the added benefit that they can help the new buyer get financing too, which helps as most people don't pay cash for cars above $20K). So, bottom line is that selling privately isn't worth it for expensive cars, as I would have to get $10K more than trade-in value to make it worth while, and then I'm competing with CPO cars with OEM warranty (not talking only about Tesla here).


    Yea, range was one of the things I wasn't crazy about, but could probably make it work (being much less efficient, there is actually a big battery in there (with large buffer on top too), but that also means that things like weather conditions don't affect it as much, it's already rated for bad efficiency - think gas mileage of a tank vs. SmartCar - heavy rain and wind will reduce the SmartCar range a lot more than a tank). The biggest thing I didn't like was a weird "bounce" effect, whenever I would come to a stop, the car would bounce backwards - probably something you can learn to avoid, but I wasn't crazy about it. I was also considering whether I want the higher ride (I grew to like the Model S sedan ride) and not having as fast acceleration (eTron is fast, but not Model S fast), but it was moot after realizing I can't make a deal on the spot anyways due to trade-in issues (can't negotiate as well either, unless you're willing to sign and drive immediately). I LOVED the eTron interior and inside tech by the way, makes Tesla look like a car from last century.
     
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  9. PhilDavid

    PhilDavid Active Member

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    *knock on wood* no issues with our car other than the yellow border and a rattle.

    As long as Tesla fixes those two issues, we really have nothing to complain about. When we bought our Model S, it was the best car we could find at any price and it remains so today. The only thing that can take that all away is potential poor service by Tesla if they drag their feet with fixing the rattle or the defective display.
     
  10. SO16

    SO16 Active Member

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    Hmmm....I liked the tactile responses of the display but I’d say the actual functionality And speed was much MUCH worse than a Tesla. Not to mention the much smaller screen. I found the seats to be not quite as comfortable. But definitely much better than the ipace.

    I guess the wait time is dependent on where you live. For me it is 13 days. (Just checked)
     
  11. SMAlset

    SMAlset Well-Known Member

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    We've had our MS (2017 March) since it was new and really no problems (other than a yellow border screen). Loved every minute driving it and would happily own another one and this time would bump up the battery from 75 to 100.

    The MS is my husband's driver and I have a Model 3 which I love. But I would really miss having the cargo space of the MS if we only had the Model 3. Everyone's circumstances are different though.
     
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  12. whitex

    whitex Active Member

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    #52 whitex, Jul 13, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2019
    Tesla giant screen is only usable for nav, everything else it's practically 2 screens (with top being always nav). Audi just split the giant screen into two (and top can do a lot more than nav, so you don't have to take your eyes far off the road to do most things)
    audi-screens.jpg
    and added controls for passengers in the back, so for example I wouldn't have to take my eyes off the road for many seconds while trying to hit tiny Tesla UI buttons to control back seat heaters. The rear has separate climate controls too, which our Model S'es do not.
    audi-screen-rear.png

    Audi screens also do A LOT more than Tesla. 360 Surround view for example, Android Auto or Apple Car Play and many other features so many Tesla owners have been dreaming about (yes, it has a HUD too).

    I didn't have any issues with the speed of the UI, maybe I'm used to MCU1 (my wife drives the MCU2 car)? I did like the "handwrite destination with your finger while not looking" kind of cool, but only tried it with a short "Audi" to find the dealership. The tactile feedback is very nice too (as my MCU slows down, so many times I press a button, then press it again because nothing happens, then it turns out I pressed it twice).

    I liked the seats, especially the ventilated part (didn't try the massage during test drive), but I agree, it's personal preference.

    My experience is of course limited to one test drive, vs. many years of driving Teslas. Wouldn't mind renting an eTron for a week, but couldn't find any place that rents them yet.

    Yea, I'm sure there is small service center somewhere in the country where there are not a lot of Tesla's where the wait is even less. For me, it was 4+ weeks last 4 or 5 times I went to book (yea, I know, sounds weird to have to so many services in less than a year, but with Tesla that is par, it seems repair service still needed every few months, even if it's a relatively minor issue like trunk not closing due to a faulty latch - two visits for that one by the way, because they don't stock parts and don't predicatively pre-order based on problem description from customer - very upset wife when car wouldn't close trunk a couple of times when she went shopping, she started to not use the trunk at all in fear she'd be stranded with an open trunk).

    Every time I get in my car and one or both screens are all black, I tense up while waiting for things to boot up and think, "what if this is the time it won't boot, I'd be screwed for a month while waiting for diagnosis, then more while waiting for parts". I breathe a sigh of relief after everything boots up ok.
     
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  13. TaoJones

    TaoJones Beyond Driven

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    Service has in fact gotten worse and continues to suffer despite what the sunshine sellers would have you prefer to believe and/or espouse.

    Even at the few SoCal SvCs that have been historically solid, you've got empty front areas with zero personnel, or coffee, or cups, or paper towels in the restrooms. Perhaps we should bring our own a la Peoples Express back in the day *rolls eyes*.

    More to the point, these are SvCs that have experienced significant headcount reductions *and* that have gone from 5-day to 7-day schedules. And yes, with Uber credits instead of loaners. So much for Elon's "top end of the line loaners for all SvCs" bs, which I've added to his "and the cars will react to stop signs" comment during the AP1 rollout (that was in 2014, btw), and the "sure we'll retrofit MCU1 cars to MCU2" bs.

    It has become increasingly more difficult to recommend Teslas to friends without a handful of caveats. And I guarantee you that if Audi (the Volkswagen Group) expands its partnership with Ford to include a serious 350kW (S)C launch in North America, Tesla is at risk of losing share.

    Of course, all Tesla has to do is to continue expanding the mobile service fleet (envision depots every 100 miles or so - no customer interface - just parts delivered in and vans/cars sent out every single day), stay ahead with its biggest competitive advantage (infrastructure/SCs), and simply stay even with the firmware/UI/UX and they'll be fine for at least the next 3-5 years. Note the hidden aces as well (battery technology, integration with Starlink, Elon's fever dream of robo-taxis - at least for fleets and international, he's not crazy, and Guillen's semi/OTR business which is an absolute category-killer for distribution centers/other 100-mile transit/transfer).

    Or they'll get steamrolled and lose share to the mom and pop segment that doesn't leave a 50-mile radius from their homes. The people that will upgrade their Leafs and Bolts to e-trons and Taycans due to persistent and increasing reports of crap Tesla service and reliability.

    The irony being that stealerships DO NOT WANT to sell EVs. 74% of stealership revenue comes from (dis)service. Ever see what a disservice writer makes at a busy stealership? It's obscene. Anyway, with fewer moving parts/things to break, EVs are not a stealership revenue model's friend. In a perfect world, that model dies.

    Meanwhile, I'm waiting for my 3rd multiple parts replacements (same major parts, multiple times) in less than 50K miles with this S, and have heard exactly zero from the mobile service team who's supposed to handle that. Calls go to voicemail and are not returned. It's beyond unacceptable. If I didn't spend so much time on the road and had one of those 50-mile radius lifestyles, I'd consider an Audi or Porsche or any one of a number of soon-to-be-released competitors as well. Frankly, I don't think Elon cares - he's done his job and more power to him. Would have been nice to not have to experience the repeated bait-and-switch bs, but that's what class actions are for.

    The sooner Tesla gets ahead of the current failures, the better. If they don't, well, there's always room in the Alphabet family of companies for one more.
     
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  14. whitex

    whitex Active Member

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    Don't you wish you had a few stealerships near you competing to fix your car? They would have people to talk to, and people to track the parts down for you because they actually make money doing warranty repairs, so they want it to happen, vs. for Tesla service each repair is a loss, because they share a P&L with the mothership. They have no incentive to tell you "yellowing screen in less than a year is normal wear and tear, not covered under warranty".
     
  15. jebinc

    jebinc M3 LR AWD w/FSD and white premium interior

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    I'm wondering how many of these Audi features can be added to our cars via a software update? I would think screen layout would be one, and perhaps the 360 camera view as well??
     
  16. Quibbs

    Quibbs Member

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    Personally, if I had as many issues that some on these forums have claimed to have had, I would just get out of a Tesla and not look back. I sure as heck wouldn't be hanging on a Tesla forum on a regular basis posting my anger and disappointment. First, I do not think it would deter many owners or potential buyers. Secondly, after awhile, it would just mainly punish the people on the forums who do not care, or enjoy the product. I guess it depends on motivations and desired end goals. Or, just how self important, selfish, and/or angry a person may be.

    When a member post, hundreds or thousands of those flavored post I start to question the usual stated reasoning for doing so. And these are the types I am mainly talking about. Not the casual complaints or issues posted. They deserve the attention. But the poster whose typical post(s) ooze an obvious bias and negativity towards Tesla. Their post, on these forums, regardless of the subject, reflect that. I am not saying people don't have issues or that those issues shouldn't be made public. But after a while some of these people become so redundant one cannot help but to question their motivations. I doubt it's solely because they support Tesla and want them to do better.

    Is this the internet version of the guy with the "THEY SOLD ME A LEMON" sign on a car that parks across from the offending dealership on a regular basis? Or is it something more nefarious? I don't know. Like most things in life I am sure it is a mix.

    The way they carry on it makes me wonder how would they would handle a divorce. Judging by the way they post I could seem them walking around their Ex's house holding a sign for years on end bad mouthing everything about their ex-SO. Afterall, they just want them to be a better person.

    All these negative post won't keep me from a Tesla, more likely just from this website or I will have to stop being lazy and start blocking certain users. If I have major issues, I will work it out with the company or through a lawsuit. I will not be the guy across the dealership, in my car with the sign for months on end.

    I hope those with real issues do not feel I am belittling you, not the intention.

    Ironically I think it becomes self defeating for the angry, negative, consistent posters because they dilute the value of their own message. They become synonymous with constant negative or hyper critical posting to regular forum browsers and their complaints start to only resonate with people who are already in their camp.
     
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  17. SO16

    SO16 Active Member

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    #57 SO16, Jul 13, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2019
    If I were you, I’d do the following:
    1. Get a MCU replacement ASAP.
    2. List your Tesla for sale and get it sold.
    3. When sold, then you can move into the etron when one becomes available. Tesla and you certainly no longer seem to mix.

    I have used CarPlay. For what I use Teslas music and tie in with my phone and hey Siri, Teslas system works good enough for me. Car play would be a nice addition for people that prefer it I suppose.

    I wouldn’t call Chicago exactly small.

    I didn’t try the massage seats either. But just the general comfort of seats I found to be not quite as good. Personal preference indeed.

    I rarely have people in the back seat. Especially to where I need to worry about being “inconvenienced” to turn on or off the seat heat while driving. Besides, the passenger can adjust the rear for me if needed. But it is nice that the etron has that extra control setup.

    I have MCU 1 as well. Seems fast enough for me too since one of these later updates. Maybe the Audi was just extra “laggy” that day for me.

    I don’t picture that hand write being that safe. But I could be wrong. Voice is sufficient for me.

    The large screen is nice for actually seeing the data for energy consumption, rear camera, nav, and album search.

    It does sound weird to have so many services in less than one year. In 2.5 years and 36k miles, the mobile service has been to my place twice. Haven’t had to take it into the Tesla service center. Brought it to a local service department for an alignment.

    But as I said before, the performance, storage, design, charging network and range are much bigger negatives for the etron than the few positives. And for you it appears to be the opposite. I sincerely hope it’s everything you want it to be.
     
  18. P100D_Me

    P100D_Me Member

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    I regularly switch between cars at our place, I miss buttons, I really miss buttons in the Tesla. :(
    Driving one of our other cars a few days ago I was able to change the driver heater settings (temp, fan speed), my heated seat, and turn TCS off without taking my eyes off the road. Humans are good at tactile feel and remembering the position of buttons without looking, this is why everyone else still does it that way.
    And of course actually have rain sensing wipers that aren't possessed was a nice change.
     
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  19. jebinc

    jebinc M3 LR AWD w/FSD and white premium interior

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    Yep, mine (wipers) are possessed as well, especially when exiting the garage. :(
     
  20. Alysashley79

    Alysashley79 Member

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    I don’t mean to nit pick but you clearly are sore with Tesla.
    1)I could either bring my car in to Bellevue as soon as Tuesday or have mobile tech out by Wednesday. (And ya I just checked through the app)
    2)every single time I call Bellevue or sodo someone picks up the phone and answers my question.
    3)I’m not just a fanboy(girl) this is my second Tesla and my first had more than a large amount of issues. But I never voiced them then and won’t now.

    Sell your car and move on.
     
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