Tesla buying money guilt :-(

[Snowy77]

I know you're agonising @AutomaticMan

I went through the same aches and laying awake cringing at such a large purchase. You know what, I have had THREE Tesla test drives. The first was to try.. EV virgin. The second was to remind me several months later why I was so obsessed... The third was AFTER I ordered, to remind me why I wasn't making a mistake!

If it helps, trust me, just book another test drive. You'll come away smiling and nodding. Sometimes the anguish over takes the euphoria. Taking another drive blows the anguish out of the water. You'll get back home, and do another me and spend another £500 on accessories lol.

You've joined the UK Tesla family. More prestige than the Royal Family !

 

[AutomaticMan]

I know you're agonising @AutomaticMan

I went through the same aches and laying awake cringing at such a large purchase. You know what, I have had THREE Tesla test drives. The first was to try.. EV virgin. The second was to remind me several months later why I was so obsessed... The third was AFTER I ordered, to remind me why I wasn't making a mistake!

If it helps, trust me, just book another test drive. You'll come away smiling and nodding. Sometimes the anguish over takes the euphoria. Taking another drive blows the anguish out of the water. You'll get back home, and do another me and spend another £500 on accessories lol.

You've joined the UK Tesla family. More prestige than the Royal Family !

That's a really good idea actually, maybe I will book another test drive! If nothing else, it'll help pass the time and give me a temporary Tesla fix until March!

 

[EVMeister]

I totally get it, my Tesla was my first new car so I had much the same situation in convincing myself it was justified as a replacement for my second-hand car.

And to be fair if the sound quality is very important to you I don't think the sound system is as good as it should be on a £40k car in the AWD, I think it just about passes but I'm not a massive audiophile.

Odd, quite a few audiophiles rave about the sound system in the AWD Model 3. I'd consider myself a semi-audiophile and think the sound system is rather good. But the audio source is also important.

Edit: hellodave meant to say RWD.

 

[AutomaticMan]

Odd, quite a few audiophiles rave about the sound system in the AWD Model 3. I'd consider myself a semi-audiophile and think the sound system is rather good. But the audio source is also important.

I thought it was stellar, really top notch. I've had expensive aftermarket systems in cars in my younger years and I've never heard any car audio system as good as in the M3 LR before.

 

[hellodave]

Odd, quite a few audiophiles rave about the sound system in the AWD Model 3. I'd consider myself a semi-audiophile and think the sound system is rather good. But the audio source is also important.

Ah my bad I have a RWD I put AWD by accident in that last post, I shall edit it

 

[Dilly]

One of my mates asked me what I thought of the Tesla right after my test drive, and I realised I spent the first minute raving about the sound system before I even mentioned the acceleration Clearly days of my youth nosing around Halfords at car stereos and speakers have stayed with me all these years... now where's the nearest McDonalds drive through to take my Tesla to?

But mind the tight kerbs…

 

[PITA]

I was chatting to a mate last night, he loves the Model 3 Performance... and has the money in his Bank Account.

BUT... he just cannot bring himself to spend that much on a car... he just can't do it.

He gets his fun from riding motorcycles, so a car is just a means to get to work and back.

 

[nunp]

I thought it was stellar, really top notch. I've had expensive aftermarket systems in cars in my younger years and I've never heard any car audio system as good as in the M3 LR before.

Best sound system I’ve experienced in any car I’ve owned versus HK, Bose, Meridian etc. Not experienced the 5k B&O in the X5 mine you but very happy with M3 system

 

[Doudeau]

Interesting thread. I deffo support the other feedback, based on what you’ve said, of buying the Tesla.

Would you feel better if you do what I’ve done both times and buy an inventory model - or even a 2nd hand car if that market softens a bit (the WBAC value on mine has gone down £2k in the last couple of weeks)?

I’ve managed to save a few £k and still got the exact spec I wanted both times. Who doesn’t like a bargain (even if you still spend £47k) ?

Tomorrow I’ll be checking out Lucid and their shares .

 

[MG535]

Only read 1 page, not all 5, but I can’t imagine spending the equivalent of my investment portfolio on a car. That’s just nuts to me.

Some will say it’s the same as the ID and motorcycle combined… doesn’t make it any saner. Just means you’ve overspent in the past as well.

Yes, Tesla’s historically low depreciation helps but still.

 

[gangzoom]

Slightly off topic, but can I ask where/how you managed to get such a low rate for such a large sum? Was it a remortgage? If I can beat the 3.99% Tesla’s loan gives me, it might be sensible to do so.

Additional borrowing for a house extension we are starting in a few months.

Rates are going up but still very very cheap, way below inflation. Remortgage coming up next month am acutally tempted to borrow more as I doubt we'll ever see money so cheap again!!

Yeah, I guess that's where I was coming from with some of my initial worry. I don't have a very big house, and other friends who are on similar money have bigger family homes. But then, they have families to fill them with and I live on my own.

If you are serious about going up the ladder I suspect you will find £50k makes pretty much zero difference to affordability. Infact £50k will probably just cover legal fees and stamp duty!!

House prices at the moment make Roadster 2.0 prices look cheap. We could have spent the money we used on our Tesla in the house purchase deposit, it will have made about £200/month to the mortgage. Homes aren't a bad way to spend your £££££ but cheap they aren't.

 

[gangzoom]

He gets his fun from riding motorcycles, so a car is just a means to get to work and back.

I have much more 'fun' on my pedal like than any car, when people talk about 'road feel' and 'agility' in a car as been 'good' all I can say these guys haven't been down a 10% descent on a road bike at 40mph+ where even the smallest pot hole can send you flying into a bush.

Modern car tires, brakes, and suspension also completely insulate the driver from just how little grip there actually is on our roads when its wet and cold!! I did this to my self 18 months ago, and as recently as last week kissed the tarmac again after losing the front end at only 16mph around a corner!

In the summer you have plenty of grip but get to enjoy things like these flying into your jersey/eye/mouth etc, thank the lord for the ability of adrenaline to mask pain till you get home. The pedal bike gives me proper regular adrenaline kicks, where as a sub 3 second 0-60 dash in a car just gives me a headache after a few rounds .

For the purposes of getting from A to B our Tesla is simply the best car I have ever owned, but for 'fun' if I was allowed I would happily spend £££££ one of these. A 250watts motor is about as much power as I trust my self with without ending up as an organ donor. I honestly have no idea how people with proper motorbikes stay upright on them .

 

[AutomaticMan]

Interesting thread. I deffo support the other feedback, based on what you’ve said, of buying the Tesla.

Would you feel better if you do what I’ve done both times and buy an inventory model - or even a 2nd hand car if that market softens a bit (the WBAC value on mine has gone down £2k in the last couple of weeks)?

I’ve managed to save a few £k and still got the exact spec I wanted both times. Who doesn’t like a bargain (even if you still spend £47k) ?

Tomorrow I’ll be checking out Lucid and their shares .

Problem with that as far as I can see is that I'm really keen on getting the AMD Ryzen processor with my Tesla, and that's not even guaranteed for my March delivery but I certainly wouldn't have it on an inventory model. And it doesn't look like you save much/any money from a new order anyway from what I can see.

Only read 1 page, not all 5, but I can’t imagine spending the equivalent of my investment portfolio on a car. That’s just nuts to me.

Some will say it’s the same as the ID and motorcycle combined… doesn’t make it any saner. Just means you’ve overspent in the past as well.

Yes, Tesla’s historically low depreciation helps but still.

Oh no! Yesterday was all uplifting "buy it! No point in being the richest man in the grave! Life is short!" posts, today I'm getting the "you're nuts, you can't afford that much" posts

How much do you think someone should have in investments before they should consider a £50k car? If it helps, I'm not relying on my investments for retirement. I'm paying into a defined benefit pension that is on track to be worth over £50k per year adjusted for inflation when I retire. Or more if I get promoted between now and then (I have 30 more years of work until my retirement age). Then I'd have the state pension as well I guess.

The investing is so that I have the option to retire a little earlier if I want to, or if something unexpected happens like I decide I do want to start a family after all, so need a bigger place to live. I don't think it's super likely (I'm just not someone who ever wanted kids), but I guess you can never rule out these things happening entirely! If I own the Tesla for 5 years, and continue investing at the same rate with average market growth my investments would be worth somewhere between £110k-£120k when it is time to trade the Tesla in.

But obviously I'm also anxious that buying the Tesla doesn't seem financially responsible, hence starting the thread, so I do worry you may be right!

Additional borrowing for a house extension we are starting in a few months.

Rates are going up but still very very cheap, way below inflation. Remortgage coming up next month am acutally tempted to borrow more as I doubt we'll ever see money so cheap again!!



If you are serious about going up the ladder I suspect you will find £50k makes pretty much zero difference to affordability. Infact £50k will probably just cover legal fees and stamp duty!!

House prices at the moment make Roadster 2.0 prices look cheap. We could have spent the money we used on our Tesla in the house purchase deposit, it will have made about £200/month to the mortgage. Homes aren't a bad way to spend your £££££ but cheap they aren't.

Yeah, well I'm not really interested in moving up to a more expensive house. As a single person, 2 bedrooms is plenty for me. I guess I'm just conscious that most people who park Teslas outside their house probably have far bigger houses because they have more money! Also conscious that some of my friends who earn similarly to me have far bigger houses and only buy cheap cars, but again, they have kids.

I don't think I'd move up the property ladder just for the purposes of gaining equity through house price increases. I'd rather stay where I am and put the money into investments and gain equity through stock market growth instead.

 

[DM206433]

Per my previous response really - you've got plenty of emergency cash stashed away (be that in instant access or if you need to draw down your investments worst case), can plenty afford the repayments and the point others have made about the money being in the car (albeit depreciating) is valid.

Basically, if you're anything like me, you're not going to be properly happy until you get one and find out for yourself. So get one.

 

[EVMeister]

@gangzoom

Could you use a spoiler tag? Some people will be reading this thread whilst eating their breakfast.

 

[AutomaticMan]

I have much more 'fun' on my pedal like than any car, when people talk about 'road feel' and 'agility' in a car as been 'good' all I can say these guys haven't been down a 10% descent on a road bike at 40mph+ where even the smallest pot hole can send you flying into a bush.

Modern car tires, brakes, and suspension also completely insulate the driver from just how little grip there actually is on our roads when its wet and cold!! I did this to my self 18 months ago, and as recently as last week kissed the tarmac again after losing the front end at only 16mph around a corner!

In the summer you have plenty of grip but get to enjoy things like these flying into your jersey/eye/mouth etc, thank the lord for the ability of adrenaline to mask pain till you get home. The pedal bike gives me proper regular adrenaline kicks, where as a sub 3 second 0-60 dash in a car just gives me a headache after a few rounds .

For the purposes of getting from A to B our Tesla is simply the best car I have ever owned, but for 'fun' if I was allowed I would happily spend £££££ one of these. A 250watts motor is about as much power as I trust my self with without ending up as an organ donor. I honestly have no idea how people with proper motorbikes stay upright on them .

I'm a bit too lazy for the old pedal-power approach, but have spent years riding motorcycles (I've toured to a lot of the famous riding roads around the world too) so though it isn't exactly the same I at least have an idea of what you mean. I did get a rush from test driving the Tesla, but it isn't the same as riding a motorcycle. On a motorcycle when riding a twisty road it kind of feels like you're flying through the landscape like a bird is the only way I can ever describe it. In a Tesla I guess it'll feel like I'm ploughing through the landscape on a wave of torque!

But much as it is something I've enjoyed for many years, my enjoyment of it has waned lately. I can't put my finger on why. I fought it for a while because long-distance motorcycle trips were 'my thing' so it seemed a big enough part of my identity that I had to continue. But recently I've realised that life is about changing and experiencing new things, so if I'm not enjoying it at the moment I'm not compelled to keep doing it anyway. Plus, if I sell my motorbike and do miss it, I can just sell the Tesla and get a cheaper car + a motorbike again some time in the future.

But on speed carried on pedal cycles - I hear you! There have been times when I've been riding on famous twisty roads (the Stelvio comes to mind most for this) on my motorbike, and going downhill I've found that the pedal cycles were going almost as fast as I was! Definitely motivated me to pick up my speed as I didn't think I'd live down being overtaken by a pedal cycle!

 

[yessuz]

Problem with that as far as I can see is that I'm really keen on getting the AMD Ryzen processor with my Tesla, and that's not even guaranteed for my March delivery but I certainly wouldn't have it on an inventory model. And it doesn't look like you save much/any money from a new order anyway from what I can see.


Oh no! Yesterday was all uplifting "buy it! No point in being the richest man in the grave! Life is short!" posts, today I'm getting the "you're nuts, you can't afford that much" posts

How much do you think someone should have in investments before they should consider a £50k car? If it helps, I'm not relying on my investments for retirement. I'm paying into a defined benefit pension that is on track to be worth over £50k per year adjusted for inflation when I retire. Or more if I get promoted between now and then (I have 30 more years of work until my retirement age). Then I'd have the state pension as well I guess.

The investing is so that I have the option to retire a little earlier if I want to, or if something unexpected happens like I decide I do want to start a family after all, so need a bigger place to live. I don't think it's super likely (I'm just not someone who ever wanted kids), but I guess you can never rule out these things happening entirely! If I own the Tesla for 5 years, and continue investing at the same rate with average market growth my investments would be worth somewhere between £110k-£120k when it is time to trade the Tesla in.

But obviously I'm also anxious that buying the Tesla doesn't seem financially responsible, hence starting the thread, so I do worry you may be right!


Yeah, well I'm not really interested in moving up to a more expensive house. As a single person, 2 bedrooms is plenty for me. I guess I'm just conscious that most people who park Teslas outside their house probably have far bigger houses because they have more money! Also conscious that some of my friends who earn similarly to me have far bigger houses and only buy cheap cars, but again, they have kids.

I don't think I'd move up the property ladder just for the purposes of gaining equity through house price increases. I'd rather stay where I am and put the money into investments and gain equity through stock market growth instead.

well, 3 bed house is just at least somewhat future proof.
but - buy the god damn car and enjoy your life. you live once. I am going to be 40 this summer. middle age crisis is looming and I know that I cannot afford a Porche (nor Ariel Atom) and definitely will will never be able to afford Koenigsegg (which is my dream car.. any of Koenigseggs) - so hey, at least will have somewhat decent.

 

[Doudeau]

Problem with that as far as I can see is that I'm really keen on getting the AMD Ryzen processor with my Tesla, and that's not even guaranteed for my March delivery but I certainly wouldn't have it on an inventory model.

Fair challenge to my point but if you want to live comfortably with the decision to buy (and I still think you should despite the opinions from the US) then you have got to turn a blind eye on what is the latest hardware because you won’t have the latest for long with Tesla. When, for example, the batteries change you’ll need to accept your expensive purchase is no longer the most desired version.

This is coming from somebody who flipped their first M3 to get the dechromed version (plus all the other goodies on the MIC model). I’m currently debating whether to follow thru on my deposit on a MY and having a similar debate to you on whether it’s justifiable spend and I think I need to follow my own advice in that para above .

 

[Snowy77]

There's an ALL IN mechanic involved here. We're taking the cost of a car, and validating it up front and in one lump sum. This will cost me 50k.

In life many people don't look at large purchases or commitments like that.

Here's a question... how often do you hear prospective parents look at their part time job, or over draft, and say "we simply cannot afford £185,000 for a child". That's the average cost of a child in the UK up to 18. Staggers me that people 10x less off than me, have 5 kids. That's almost a MILLION pounds over 18 years if you stick to averages (55 grand a year average over 18 years).

The difference is that after 3 years, you can't choose to sell your kids off if things get tight... well, not in the UK anyway

I guess what I'm saying is that it depends how you tackle it. I look at cost of ownership to be the PCP repayment. £500 pm I'm also factoring in mitigation. I managed to clear about £250 / £300 pm needless debits for credit agreements I couldn't be bothered to deal with. Which really means that I'm looking at an overall monthly extra outgoing of £200 (since I deliberately cleared up £300 of payments). THEN I have to factor in up to about £50 a week in fuel savings. There's the £200. So really the Tesla will cost me no more than I was already spending directly through pointless debt, or stealth outgoings such as fuel.

So really when the math speaks, I'm actually no different off. I'm just 15k down as chosen maxed out up front. Which I have the funds for. I could go incrementally lower, and raise the monthly, but £500 sounds a lot, but quickly mitigated which is what I was aiming for.

I have an 11 year old daughter, and missus, and 3/4 bedroom semi to pay for, but it's about time I did something to boost spirit levels (which didn't involve alcohol)

 

[AutomaticMan]

There's an ALL IN mechanic involved here. We're taking the cost of a car, and validating it up front and in one lump sum. This will cost me 50k.

In life many people don't look at large purchases or commitments like that.

Here's a question... how often do you hear prospective parents look at their part time job, or over draft, and say "we simply cannot afford £185,000 for a child". That's the average cost of a child in the UK up to 18. Staggers me that people 10x less off than me, have 5 kids. That's almost a MILLION pounds over 18 years if you stick to averages (55 grand a year average over 18 years).

The difference is that after 3 years, you can't choose to sell your kids off if things get tight... well, not in the UK anyway

I guess what I'm saying is that it depends how you tackle it. I look at cost of ownership to be the PCP repayment. £500 pm I'm also factoring in mitigation. I managed to clear about £250 / £300 pm needless debits for credit agreements I couldn't be bothered to deal with. Which really means that I'm looking at an overall monthly extra outgoing of £200 (since I deliberately cleared up £300 of payments). THEN I have to factor in up to about £50 a week in fuel savings. There's the £200. So really the Tesla will cost me no more than I was already spending directly through pointless debt, or stealth outgoings such as fuel.

So really when the math speaks, I'm actually no different off. I'm just 15k down as chosen maxed out up front. Which I have the funds for. I could go incrementally lower, and raise the monthly, but £500 sounds a lot, but quickly mitigated which is what I was aiming for.

I have an 11 year old daughter, and missus, and 3/4 bedroom semi to pay for, but it's about time I did something to boost spirit levels (which didn't involve alcohol)

Yeah, it's actually the not having kids argument that is most pushing me towards doing this. I've lost count of the number of times people have joked with me "you don't have kids?? Why are you not driving a sports car??" and things like that over the years

Of course, the other thing people who are childless often do is retire early. I have a uni friend who recently retired at the age of 38! She didn't have kids, and saved every penny her whole life. Had a great job, but still drives the same ancient 1-litre new driver's car she got when she passed her test, has an ancient phone, etc. etc. I must admit there are days when work is causing me stress that I think she had it all totally right, and I'm an idiot for not saving more than I have over the years. But on the other hand, I don't think most people find it easy to live a life that is that frugal, and I just don't think I have it in me. I mean, if everyone were happy to just get by with the most minimal, frugal possessions that you can then communism would have worked... haha. I am attracted by gadgets and tech, and I just know that I don't have the willpower to do what it takes to retire at 40 or anything like that.

So I agree with what you're saying. The only thing I find makes the man maths hard is the fuel savings bit. To be saving £50/week by driving an EV you have to be putting a lot of miles on it... twice the annual average I'm guessing? So for every extra bit of saving through fuel savings you'll be losing a bit more through depreciation due to your car being high mileage when you sell it. Of course, if you're a high mileage driver then that depreciation is something you have to deal with whatever car you drive, but 50% depreciation on a £25k car is obviously easier on the pocket than 50% depreciation in a £50k car.

Not that I think that undermines your man maths overall of course... it sounds like you've got a great case for Tesla buying regardless of that bit!

Fair challenge to my point but if you want to live comfortably with the decision to buy (and I still think you should despite the opinions from the US) then you have got to turn a blind eye on what is the latest hardware because you won’t have the latest for long with Tesla. When, for example, the batteries change you’ll need to accept your expensive purchase is no longer the most desired version.

This is coming from somebody who flipped their first M3 to get the dechromed version (plus all the other goodies on the MIC model). I’m currently debating whether to follow thru on my deposit on a MY and having a similar debate to you on whether it’s justifiable spend and I think I need to follow my own advice in that para above .

I do agree, I guess I just haven't seen that there are big savings to be had with inventory models anyway. I also agree that I have to come to terms with not having the latest thing anymore pretty quickly after purchase whatever I do. But the other rumoured upgrades like ventilated seats or bigger batteries don't really sound crucial to me anyway. But I think the new processor will be a big upgrade, so I'm very keen in particular to have that.