Tesla buying money guilt :-(

[AutomaticMan]

For me the big driver was the environment. Global Warming is real and will be a huge burden on future generations. I want to be able to say I am sorry and I did all I knew how to do. We managed to cut our carbon footprint by 85% with Tesla being a large part of that. No other car allows me to take easy long trips like a Tesla and is still low carbon. Emissions are half that of the best in class Prius. Amazon.com

Very good point for many people! Though isn't a good excuse in my case as I sold a fully electric VW ID.3 to get the Tesla

 

[roadcred]

Dislike the whole suggestion that buying a house in the 60s,70s 0r 1980 was easier.
Mortgage interest rates were generally in the 7%+ range, mine maxed at 15%.
Salaries were tiny and it was unusual to have 2 good salaries in a household. What we did have was no central heating.
no dishwashers, no showers, no new furniture....I could go on.
I have 3 children all on the housing ladder now all with children and just one income. I cant say their journey was as hard as mine.

 

[PITA]

You lot are lucky, I Married & Divorced a proactive Gold Digger, with access to a Barrister... I walked away with nothing except shredded underwear for a rain hat.

If you really wamt to know what expensive hobbies are, come talk with me...

 

[EVer Hopeful]

Dislike the whole suggestion that buying a house in the 60s,70s 0r 1980 was easier.

I think your point has some validity

Looking at the house I live in, at the time it was the most expensive thing we'd ever bought and 50% more expensive than the one we were selling. Then time passed and I forget all about that part. What I mean is that real estate always seems ridiculously expensive and you wonder how you could manage it, then you do it and years later you look back and compare that purchase price with the current value and overlook that someone did that a generation before you and thought your purchase price was ridiculous [1]

Having said that, I understand that at some point it does become ridiculous, maybe even unobtainable. That's just not been my experience




[1] Apart from Detroit I suppose (although some people will make a lot of money there)

 

[yessuz]

just to throw some wrench into works:

just checked BMW 330e PCP figures in autotrader. 69 reg car with close to 30k on the clock stands at ~450 pm as PCP with 12k (!!!)as balloon after 48 months. If I take into account that, as per my usage, I should save up to 200 a month on fuel costs and no services for electric cars are really required... well buying the 50k car with all the bells as whistles seems much more reasonable than I thought

 

[73henny]

just to throw another wrench into the works:

looking at the figures for a M3P vs M3LR. A 3P with £1k down is £950 per month over 48 months with 10k miles, final payment £22.6k. So Tesla reckon the car will depreciate at about £800 a month every month for 4 years! My bank's PCP has the same interest rate but their final payment for a 3P is £26.3k so they calculate about £720 per month.

Whats everyone's guesstimation of what a 4 year old M3P with 40k miles might be worth. Got to be more than £22k surely?
(trying to make the man maths work....)

 

[RSpanner]

As this seems to be devolving quite nicely into a general financial planning slinging match, I just want to throw one thing into the ring…

For those folks on this forum who are in a blessed position with their mortgage, it’s great to see what hard work can do. But we need to remember that house price vs standard earnings were a completely different kettle of fish 20-30 years ago (or even 15!).

There are many people in this country with a full time job, for whom finishing their mortgage and resting on a cushy pension at 55 are simply pipe dreams. I can’t find it in myself to think those people shouldn’t have a nice car if it makes them happy as long as it’s not going to put them or their kids on the street.

Fell like the old fart I am now..I was self employed without a pension, or any nets. So go for what you want..I am only batting 259.

 

[Dilly]

Dislike the whole suggestion that buying a house in the 60s,70s 0r 1980 was easier.
Mortgage interest rates were generally in the 7%+ range, mine maxed at 15%.
Salaries were tiny and it was unusual to have 2 good salaries in a household. What we did have was no central heating.
no dishwashers, no showers, no new furniture....I could go on.
I have 3 children all on the housing ladder now all with children and just one income. I cant say their journey was as hard as mine.

I can identify with every word of that. We did buy a new bed when we got married though. Everything else including our cooker was second hand.
45 years later we’re still using some wedding presents!
coal fired back boiler heated hot water. No central heating other than leaving the airing cupboard door open
Them were’t days

 

[pgkevet]

Absolutely, I have plenty of friends around my age who haven't managed to save up the deposit to buy their first house and even get a mortgage, let alone pay it off.

I think it's fair for me to get both sides though on this thread. I think people can see from the info I've posted that if I lived really really frugally for a few years I could be mortgage free... or if I buy the Tesla it'll take me twice or three times as long to be mortgage free. So I think "mortgage now, Tesla later" is a fair reply. It's just not the approach I've decided to go with for now

I think that's partly because unless interest rates do sky rocket, I wouldn't actually pay off my mortgage anyway. I would just have enough in my investments that I could cash them out and pay off my mortgage. In reality, I would just keep the money invested so nothing would actually change for me on a day-to-day basis by being in that position anyway, other than more of a general sense of security I suppose.

But, I still have that sense of security anyway really. I mean, I could sell the Tesla at any point if I needed to quickly pay off my mortgage for some reason. It wouldn't be quite as easy (money invested in a Tesla will depreciate, money invested in stocks & shares over the long term will probably not), but still within reach.

Folk will take their own path through life. For many of my generation, times were equally tough for their era - the make do and mend and hand-me-down clothes and housewives (before both partners were expected to work) that would shop and cook economically, remake clothes and unpick woollens to reknit and brought up on the 'neither a borrow nor lender' principle.
As soon as I had my first job I started pension planning - it was cashing some of those policies in that ended up being the deposit for my first fixer-upper house and second-hand furniture. We also went through the era of gazumping and bank loan rates over 15%. In my own case, I used to take locum jobs for my vacations. Temptations of the latest gadget and take-out food were restricted to a rare fish and chips and a second-hand washing machine.
Yes, I have sympathy for the relative earnings/house prices but no sympathy for those that spent thousands on weddings (I catered my own), expect any house to be fully decorated and furnished and gadgeted. I was also 50 before I owned my own first decent car and that was third-hand. Even now, I wouldn't dream of buying a take-out coffee, although I might sit in a café with friends. On a road trip, I'll take a thermos and snacks.
The world doesn't give out favours, so I've worked and budgeted for the long haul.

 

[yessuz]

I can identify with every word of that. We did buy a new bed when we got married though. Everything else including our cooker was second hand.
45 years later we’re still using some wedding presents!
coal fired back boiler heated hot water. No central heating other than leaving the airing cupboard door open
Them were’t days

I mean in Soviet union automatic washing machine was a novelty in late 80s (my mum did not have one until early 90s) and you had to get an allocation/permit to buy a new car back then.

Second hand cars used to cost more that new ones in the market ))

 

[AutomaticMan]

Folk will take their own path through life. For many of my generation, times were equally tough for their era - the make do and mend and hand-me-down clothes and housewives (before both partners were expected to work) that would shop and cook economically, remake clothes and unpick woollens to reknit and brought up on the 'neither a borrow nor lender' principle.
As soon as I had my first job I started pension planning - it was cashing some of those policies in that ended up being the deposit for my first fixer-upper house and second-hand furniture. We also went through the era of gazumping and bank loan rates over 15%. In my own case, I used to take locum jobs for my vacations. Temptations of the latest gadget and take-out food were restricted to a rare fish and chips and a second-hand washing machine.
Yes, I have sympathy for the relative earnings/house prices but no sympathy for those that spent thousands on weddings (I catered my own), expect any house to be fully decorated and furnished and gadgeted. I was also 50 before I owned my own first decent car and that was third-hand. Even now, I wouldn't dream of buying a take-out coffee, although I might sit in a café with friends. On a road trip, I'll take a thermos and snacks.
The world doesn't give out favours, so I've worked and budgeted for the long haul.

See, this is why even if I may have shared too much about my financials in some people's view, I'm glad I kicked this thread off because I'm finding it fascinating hearing all the different approaches to money, through different generations.

I think it is without doubt that my generation is more consumerist than my dad's generation. I know of very few people around my age who bring a flask with them instead of buying coffee, but I remember going on trips with my grandparents as a kid and times they forgot to bring a flask of tea with them were treated as world ending disasters

That said, I'm not really a big drinker of alcohol (occasional social drinker), whereas I know people of all generations who have at least a few pints down the pub every night. How much is a pint? £3.50? If someone averages 2 pints a night that's about £200 a month. I think most people have an expensive habit or two somewhere in their lives... for some it's alcohol, for some it's Teslas, for some it's clothes, etc. Very few people live a wholly frugal life in every way nowadays, and those who do if they're also in decent jobs get to retire in their 40s. But they're the exception rather than the norm nowadays I think.

 

[Doudeau]

Based on all the responses and the latest information from you @AutomaticMan , I recon you should stretch to an M3P .

 

[Casss]

Go on, give him your referral code

 

[Casss]

I can identify with every word of that. We did buy a new bed when we got married though. Everything else including our cooker was second hand.
45 years later we’re still using some wedding presents!
coal fired back boiler heated hot water. No central heating other than leaving the airing cupboard door open
Them were’t days

We did quite a few years in horrible bungalows and houses that were more holey than some cheeses and that wasn’t all that long ago. No central heating sucked, no hot water most mornings sucked, everything sucked for a while but it’s what we had to do in order to save enough over a short enough period of time to get out of that cycle.

Even when we bought our first house a lot of our stuff was 2nd hand too.

 

[AutomaticMan]

We did quite a few years in horrible bungalows and houses that were more holey than some cheeses and that wasn’t all that long ago. No central heating sucked, no hot water most mornings sucked, everything sucked for a while but it’s what we had to do in order to save enough over a short enough period of time to get out of that cycle.

Even when we bought our first house a lot of our stuff was 2nd hand too.

My first flat was really a glorified bed sit with a pull out sofa bed that was probably older than the average Tesla owner. Economy 7 night storage heating that was freezing in the day and like the fires of hell at night. And I had to put 50p in the meter of a communal cupboard to make the electricity work.

I’ve suffered too you old timers!!

 

[PITA]

Well I've developed a definate addiction to Arc'teryx branded clothing over the past 18 months...

... funny what we like to spend our money on...

 

[EVer Hopeful]

you were lucky! We lived in the communal cupboard

 

[cucubits]

Just wondering how many of you out there are buying Teslas on normal incomes and do you feel guilty about it? I keep going back and forth between excitement at getting a Model 3 LR, and guilt/worry about it being a stupid financial decision.

I went through a similar debate with myself a few years ago when I bought a Model S. It was the most expensive purchase I ever made but having joined the Tesla hype train long before that, I really wanted one.

A little backstory, before the Model S, I had a 2016 Mazda 6 (new) which cost about half of what I paid for a used 2016.5 Model S.

I won't really say that I regret this decision but to be completely honest, I only started feeling good a little while ago when I finally sold the Tesla. It was a fun car, acceleration and smoothness were very good, but overall it just didn't feel like a $50k car. With much cheaper interior parts, even compared to my Mazda and overall poor build quality, questionable design choices and straight up missing features which should be standard, I just couldn't bring myself to feel the love for the Tesla.

Now it's entirely possible that the new Model 3s are a little better built but I wouldn't get my hopes too high. I also know the crazy gas prices in Europe so if ICE is not an option, yes, probably a new Tesla won't be a bad purchase. I'm sure I'll be back to driving an EV (maybe even a Tesla) but not for the next few years. Now I'm properly excited for my new car to arrive, I would say way more excited than I was when getting ready to buy the Tesla 2 years ago.

 

[Jason71]

Dislike the whole suggestion that buying a house in the 60s,70s 0r 1980 was easier.
Mortgage interest rates were generally in the 7%+ range, mine maxed at 15%.
Salaries were tiny and it was unusual to have 2 good salaries in a household. What we did have was no central heating.
no dishwashers, no showers, no new furniture....I could go on.
I have 3 children all on the housing ladder now all with children and just one income. I cant say their journey was as hard as mine.

Fell like the old fart I am now..I was self employed without a pension, or any nets. So go for what you want..I am only batting 259.

I can identify with every word of that. We did buy a new bed when we got married though. Everything else including our cooker was second hand.
45 years later we’re still using some wedding presents!
coal fired back boiler heated hot water. No central heating other than leaving the airing cupboard door open
Them were’t days

Folk will take their own path through life. For many of my generation, times were equally tough for their era - the make do and mend and hand-me-down clothes and housewives (before both partners were expected to work) that would shop and cook economically, remake clothes and unpick woollens to reknit and brought up on the 'neither a borrow nor lender' principle.
As soon as I had my first job I started pension planning - it was cashing some of those policies in that ended up being the deposit for my first fixer-upper house and second-hand furniture. We also went through the era of gazumping and bank loan rates over 15%. In my own case, I used to take locum jobs for my vacations. Temptations of the latest gadget and take-out food were restricted to a rare fish and chips and a second-hand washing machine.
Yes, I have sympathy for the relative earnings/house prices but no sympathy for those that spent thousands on weddings (I catered my own), expect any house to be fully decorated and furnished and gadgeted. I was also 50 before I owned my own first decent car and that was third-hand. Even now, I wouldn't dream of buying a take-out coffee, although I might sit in a café with friends. On a road trip, I'll take a thermos and snacks.
The world doesn't give out favours, so I've worked and budgeted for the long haul.

And you tell that to the youth of today........

 

[AutomaticMan]

I went through a similar debate with myself a few years ago when I bought a Model S. It was the most expensive purchase I ever made but having joined the Tesla hype train long before that, I really wanted one.

A little backstory, before the Model S, I had a 2016 Mazda 6 (new) which cost about half of what I paid for a used 2016.5 Model S.

I won't really say that I regret this decision but to be completely honest, I only started feeling good a little while ago when I finally sold the Tesla. It was a fun car, acceleration and smoothness were very good, but overall it just didn't feel like a $50k car. With much cheaper interior parts, even compared to my Mazda and overall poor build quality, questionable design choices and straight up missing features which should be standard, I just couldn't bring myself to feel the love for the Tesla.

Now it's entirely possible that the new Model 3s are a little better built but I wouldn't get my hopes too high. I also know the crazy gas prices in Europe so if ICE is not an option, yes, probably a new Tesla won't be a bad purchase. I'm sure I'll be back to driving an EV (maybe even a Tesla) but not for the next few years. Now I'm properly excited for my new car to arrive, I would say way more excited than I was when getting ready to buy the Tesla 2 years ago.

Oooh… I had a Mazda 6 once! I quite liked that car, thought it handled quite nicely at the time.

Sounds like you’re just not a Tesla guy, which is fine, some aren’t. I think I will be though. I really like the minimalist but tech heavy approach to the interior. People were always complaining that the ID.3 that I have just sold is too minimalist, but I love it.

Hope you feel more at home in your next car!