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Tesla Buyout

Discussion in 'TSLA Investor Discussions' started by rodrego66, Aug 28, 2018.

  1. rodrego66

    rodrego66 Member

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    • Funny x 1
  2. untilcomplete

    untilcomplete Member

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    Not happening.
     
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  3. kengchang

    kengchang Active Member

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    Not gonna happen
     
  4. Gavyne

    Gavyne Member

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    A more likely scenario is Tim Cook will just poach whoever he wants/needs from Tesla for their needs.
     
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  5. wdolson

    wdolson Supporting Member

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    Apple has lost its mojo. They tried the Apple car and the project fell apart. They are trying again, but a project that big and innovative takes someone as obsessive as Elon Musk or Steve Jobs. Since Jobs died, Apple has only released one new product (the watch) which was nearly done when Jobs died and derivatives of existing products.

    I posted this a week or so back in another thread:


    I think Mark Cuban is right. People like Elon are rare and they are difficult people, but they get results. Kicking him out of Tesla would be a disaster like it was for Apple to kick Jobs out in the 90s.
     
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  6. ℬête Noire

    ℬête Noire Active Member

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    Nonsense, Jobs passed nearly 4 years before the Apple Watch first shipped. It was only an idea at the time (and remember he was only partially involved for some time prior to his death), and it wasn't a product initiated by Jobs himself (although it seems that he knew Ive was looking into the idea). Although he was instrumental in the vision that brought Apple together, arguably Jobs' biggest accomplishment was putting together an organization that didn't fall apart without him.
     
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  7. rdlink

    rdlink Member

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    You're both wrong. Apple was on life support when Jobs came back. But kicking him out in the first place almost had to happen for Apple to achieve the success they have. During Jobs' time away from Apple he grew dramatically. And Apple's experience after his departure drew a clear blueprint on how not to create an innovative company. When Jobs came back to Apple the dire straights that they were in caused Jobs to create the magic four square product plan, and that, along with giving Ive a massive role was the beginning of Apple's renaissance. And let's not forget that Cook was hugely instrumental in their growth and success in the 2000's. Without his manufacturing/supply chain magic they don't turn it around as much as they did, either.

    And Apple hasn't "lost their mojo." Under Cook the company has continued, and grown upon their wild success. Cook is not the crazy genius, out of the box thinker that Jobs was. But he knows that, and he plays to his strengths. The Apple management team put together an "innovation culture" while Jobs was still alive, and they run their organization based on those principles, while dealing with the realities of being a real, grownup company.

    Having said that, Apple doesn't want or need Tesla, and Tesla shouldn't want Apple. As long as Tesla becomes profitable in the next quarter, and stays that way they are fine. But they won't be a "mature" company for a few years. However, as they start moving into sustained profitability and maturity the board should (needs to) exert more control over Musk, and be prepared to "Jobs" him if necessary.
     
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  8. ℬête Noire

    ℬête Noire Active Member

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    You accidentally replied to the wrong person???
     
  9. novox77

    novox77 1.21 Gigawatts

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    wow, for a second, I thought I was back on androidforums.com
     
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  10. Nocturnal

    Nocturnal Active Member

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    Seems unlikely, for many reasons. I don't think anyone will be buying Tesla.
     
  11. rdlink

    rdlink Member

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    No. I was replying to both of you. The other poster was wrong in saying that Apple has "lost its mojo." And I was saying you're wrong in claiming that Jobs put together an organization that survived without him. But now I realize I misread your post. I was reading it as if you said that Jobs built Apple to survive him on his first departure. But now it's obvious that you meant he built it to survive him after his death.

    I still believe his biggest singlehanded accomplishment was his quick move to simplify their product line in the late 90s, but you're right in that he did a great thing in setting up a culture at Apple to survive his death. Apologies. Shouldn't reply to posts before my second cup of coffee... :)
     
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  12. ℬête Noire

    ℬête Noire Active Member

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    #12 ℬête Noire, Aug 29, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2018


    Yes, horribly so. ;) The kid really didn't know what he was doing the first go around, as well as having only about 8-9 years there under mind-blowing growth. It's getting close to as much time now since his death as he had from garage until Scully pushed him out.
     
  13. gbrgbr

    gbrgbr Member

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    IMHO Apple's success was largely in commercializing other companies ideas. I think their greatest innovation by far was/is the apple software store. take 30% of the cost of every program installed on everyone's system. absolutely brilliant.
     
  14. JulienW

    JulienW Member

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    Apple hit 1 trillion market cap only about 3 weeks ago. Since hitting 1 trillion just a few days ago Apple has added (70 billion) almost an extra 1½ Tesla's (53 billion) in market cap value. I wish I could lose my mojo.
     
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  15. Nocturnal

    Nocturnal Active Member

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    I'd be happy to sit on 50 billion in cash.
     
  16. wdolson

    wdolson Supporting Member

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    I didn't say Apple was going out of business, I said they've lost their mojo. Microsoft lost theirs earlier than Apple. They keep releasing new versions of their products and the company is still quite profitable and they have a very strong base in the business world, but they haven't had a product that had much of an impact on consumers in years. Windows was once the cornerstone of their product line and a new version creates a small ripple with consumers, but they often generate more complaints than excitement.

    I was wrong about the Apple watch timeline and Jobs' death. I thought he had died more recently.

    If you look at the timeline of Apple products, within a year of Jobs' return, their computers took on a new look like the new iMac. In the 90s the computers looked like DOS/Windows computers for the most part. Very pedestrian.

    In 2001 Apple came out with the iPod, then the Mac Mini in 2005, AppleTV in 2007, iPhone 2007, and iPad 2010. The Apple Watch rumors started around 2011, before Jobs stepped down.

    Apple still makes quality products and their profits are staggering, but they are not innovating like they did when Jobs was at the helm. There were rumors flying around of an Apple car a few years ago and a video came out of an Apple car test driving around some building, but then the key people left and the project was shelved. To push the boundaries in new directions takes a maniacal leader who both thinks way outside the box and has the burning drive to push others to get there.

    I have a friend who worked with Steve Jobs on a project at Apple. He had many arguments with Jobs and got fired a couple of times (only to have Jobs wonder why he wasn't there the next day). Tim Cook is a good steady manager, but he doesn't have the burning drive Jobs had. Apple has tweaked their product line and advanced at the pace of technology, but they aren't innovating like they did when Jobs was at the helm. On the upside, Apple is probably a nicer place to work than it was when Jobs was running the place.

    Tesla still has a lot of innovating to do and getting rid of Elon would be a mistake. He's the fire that keeps the entire company moving forward. There may not be anyone else in the world capable of stepping into his shoes and doing anywhere near as good a job.

    Elon does need to step back and take a chill pill with Twitter. He isn't helping his cause with the public.
     
  17. ℬête Noire

    ℬête Noire Active Member

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    #17 ℬête Noire, Aug 29, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2018
    Here's to hoping that fish can learn how to stop swimming. Or at least STFU about swimming. He's doing good work that ultimately enables people to the get thing done to the benefit of humanity, some pretty exciting stuff that we're all better off having here, but could really work on keeping his lane. Or at least somewhere near his lane.

    Damn physicists.

    I understand he naturally runs "a little hot", it's part of what makes him him but he's also smart and insightful enough to know he's got to temper it at the edges and channel or Bad Things will eventually come to him and it'll eat him up.


    As for Apple; Cook isn't the Manic At The Top like Jobs was but my understanding is that the striving, "focus is saying no", "tech as art to drive the UX" spirit of Jobs still lives on within the company. It doesn't need to be a single person when it's deeply held culture. That'll hang in there for a long time.
     
  18. wdolson

    wdolson Supporting Member

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    Engineers often get irritated with scientist because the scientists can be pie in the sky and scientists get irritated with engineers because the engineers spoil the fun by bringing reality into it.

    Most organizations with a strong dynamic leader take on that character (for good or bad) with everyone channeling the leader. Because most of the people there continue after the leader leaves, that energy sticks around a while. However over time the people who remember the leader first hand move on to other things or just begin to forget the details and the organization morphs.

    When Bill Gates was CEO of Microsoft the company channeled him too. When he got married and somewhat distracted from the day to day operations of the company, the company began to mellow out, but also began to lose its edge as the big mover and shaker in the computer industry. They also ended up behind the curve in several shifts in the industry that didn't help.

    Some of those shifts were caused by Apple.

    Apple will remain dominant for a while and will remain a big company with a strong footprint for a long time to come. Microsoft and many of the tech giants of 10-20 years ago are still around. A few got bought out, but many are still independent companies doing something in the tech business even if the public rarely hears about it.

    Even if Apple quit innovating all together, they have enough cash to buy out a number of other tech companies. I don't think Tesla would be a good fit though. Apple develops intellectual property and they farm out the manufacturing to someone else. They haven't made much of their own stuff in many years. Tesla is also an intellectual property company, but they are also a heavy industry and that part is becoming more and more important as they ramp up volume. Tesla's production would do better if they were owned by another company who understands heavy industry (like LG), but I think they are best off as an independent company. They are big enough now that getting bought out would be difficult for most companies to pull off.

    A few weeks back I saw a discussion that had been on CNBC or something like that and they were speculating which company would buy Tesla. Not speculating if Tesla would sell out to another car company, that was a foregone conclusion to everyone in the discussion. They were discussing whether it would be Toyota or Mercedes or Ford. I found it kind of surreal. I could understand speculating about the possibility the company might be bought by someone someday, but assuming that it definitely will get bought?
     
  19. ℬête Noire

    ℬête Noire Active Member

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    Where's the eyeroll emoji when you need it? Is this it? :rolleyes: Yeah, I guess that's supposed to be it.

    :rolleyes:
     
  20. Rarity

    Rarity Supporting Member

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    Overall, I agree with the gist of your post, but there are still small sparks of innovation that show up from time to time (not enough to fill out even a single Tesla car model, mind). I understand that the airpods are pretty revolutionary.
     

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