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HotIce

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Dec 18, 2020
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MD
Tesla said Monday that it had purchased $1.5 billion worth of bitcoin and will start accepting the cryptocurrency as payment for its vehicles.



In a Securities and Exchange Commission filing, Tesla said it bought the bitcoin for “more flexibility to further diversify and maximize returns on our cash.”



Chief Executive Elon Musk has been hyping bitcoin for weeks. He added the hashtag #bitcoin to his Twitter bio and has spoken positively of digital currencies in recent interviews.



The announcement increased the price of both bitcoin and Tesla shares even as the filing noted bitcoin’s price volatility. It’s a significant move for Tesla, considering they’re moving $1.5 billion of the $19 billion in cash on hand it reported at the end of last year.



Tesla said it will allow payment by bitcoin “subject to applicable laws and initially on a limited basis.” Tesla will be the first major automaker to allow bitcoin as payment.

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AdamMacDon

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May 8, 2019
701
509
Victoria BC
Let's get this straight.

Elon can barely make a buck selling his cars.

So now, in addition to selling energy credits, he's hoping Bitcoin will help the bottom line ?
If you have cash kicking around why on earth wouldn't you put it into BTC? How much has the value of the USD gone up YoY (especially with the insane money printing happening during covid)? My portfolio has trended up for years with BTC, sure it has drops, but I'm up over 700%. Meanwhile, if I had held onto USD I would lose 2-5% per year thanks to inflation and that is a guarantee. Don't get into cryptos because you think you're gonna play the market and make a quick buck, but as a long term value store, the 21 million coin limit plus the halving are amazing deflationary mechanics. I guess you could make the argument that they should reinvest as much of their money as possible, but I'm sure for a company Tesla's size, $1.5B is not really a large amount of capital and good to have in a slush fund for later projects.
 
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Sep 23, 2020
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If you have cash kicking around why on earth wouldn't you put it into BTC? How much has the value of the USD gone up YoY (especially with the insane money printing happening during covid)? My portfolio has trended up for years with BTC, sure it has drops, but I'm up over 700%. Meanwhile, if I had held onto USD I would lose 2-5% per year thanks to inflation and that is a guarantee. Don't get into cryptos because you think you're gonna play the market and make a quick buck, but as a long term value store, the 21 million coin limit plus the halving are amazing deflationary mechanics. I guess you could make the argument that they should reinvest as much of their money as possible, but I'm sure for a company Tesla's size, $1.5B is not really a large amount of capital and good to have in a slush fund for later projects.
Let's call it a strange move that somehow just does not seem it should at the top of Tesla's priority list.

In addition - 'ole Elon better contain himself in regards to his tweeting and other propaganda re Bitcoin.

I'm sure the SEC would love to examine how the CEO of Tesla puts some chips on Bitcoin and then starts a barrage of tweets and other commentary.
 
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Alset Srotom

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Jun 1, 2019
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Let's call it a strange move that somehow just does not seem it should at the top of Tesla's priority list.

In addition - 'ole Elon better contain himself in regards to his tweeting and other propaganda re Bitcoin.

I'm sure the SEC would love to examine how the CEO of Tesla puts some chips on Bitcoin and then starts a barrage of tweets and other commentary.

The SEC has absolutely nothing to do with BTC. It's not a security, it's a currency.
 
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Mardak

Member
Oct 13, 2018
660
1,307
USA
Is purchasing Bitcoin a requirement or even a good first step before accepting payments kept as Bitcoin? I suppose it could be good financial experience in holding the digital currency.

There do seem to be benefits in avoiding usual credit card transaction fees especially for small dollar amount transactions where a fixed credit card fee of "just" 10¢ (+1%) can eat significantly into a half mile robotaxi trip that Tesla has estimated to be 18¢/mi.
 

AdamMacDon

Member
May 8, 2019
701
509
Victoria BC
Let's call it a strange move that somehow just does not seem it should at the top of Tesla's priority list.

In addition - 'ole Elon better contain himself in regards to his tweeting and other propaganda re Bitcoin.

I'm sure the SEC would love to examine how the CEO of Tesla puts some chips on Bitcoin and then starts a barrage of tweets and other commentary.
It literally takes the average person maybe 10 minutes to buy/sell BTC, and that's being generous. It's really not that complex to deal with compared to building the first sexy electric car and fixing the millions of issues afterwards. One I can do in my pajamas from home, the other is way beyond most people's abilities at all, period.

And BTC is not a security, the SEC wishes they could regulate it that way, but it's a currency (hence the term "crypto currency", not "crypto security"). Would you be so up in arms if Elon tweeted about "buy Japanese Yen" (another deflationary currency)? If not, I would analyze that position a bit more :)
 
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electricar

Member
Jul 31, 2018
210
182
NotCal
The SEC has absolutely nothing to do with BTC. It's not a security, it's a currency.

The SEC may end up effecting Bitcoin if they decide to get involved with iFINEX using Bitfinex and Tether to jack the price of Bitcoin around and publicly traded companies attempting to jack their stock price around using Bitcoin trades. As BigNick and AdamMacDon have noted Bitcoin may be a currency but it's tiny compared to the world's fiat currencies so it is subject to the kinds of shenanigans that only governments can do to fiat currency.
 

Alset Srotom

Member
Jun 1, 2019
232
338
USA
There's not enough bitcoin in the world's currency supply to guard against price manipulation. It will eventually crash and people holding it will lose their a$$ets, once those who are pumping it decide to dump it.

Sorry pal, the house doesn't lose, and the house has taken long positions in BTC.

It's understandable that you're angry you're missing out on this, but your lack of buy in certainly isn't going to effect the price of BTC. It will end 2021 anywhere from 80k-100k.
 

Uncle Paul

Well-Known Member
Nov 1, 2013
6,169
6,669
Canyon Lake,CA
Some are concerned that the US dollar is subject to devaluation because of the tremendous deficit spending by Government.
If interest rates rise, the national debt could consume much of our disposable income and perhaps even trigger a default

Currently the government is not sending out all the trillions of $ for their stimulus programs out of savings, but out of massive new borrowing.

Some believe that owning a part of your assets in bit coin is a protection from this.
 

electricar

Member
Jul 31, 2018
210
182
NotCal
It does seem that there is a good possibility that the Modern Monetary Theory will not end well but I am having trouble seeing crypto-currency as a hedge against the enormity of the potential problem.
 
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AdamMacDon

Member
May 8, 2019
701
509
Victoria BC
The SEC may end up effecting Bitcoin if they decide to get involved with iFINEX using Bitfinex and Tether to jack the price of Bitcoin around and publicly traded companies attempting to jack their stock price around using Bitcoin trades. As BigNick and AdamMacDon have noted Bitcoin may be a currency but it's tiny compared to the world's fiat currencies so it is subject to the kinds of shenanigans that only governments can do to fiat currency.
This hits the nail on the head. The biggest threat to BTC and crypto is the government(s) realize the risk to their currency monopoly and tries to act against BTC even more aggressively. Thankfully, even in countries that have already tried this, the results have been minimal. China has enacted harsh regulations against cryptos, but some of our biggest customers in crypto were Chinese. Look how well the war on drugs has been going, now imagine it if the drugs could be sent over the internet instantly. All I can say is "good luck" to those governments trying so hard. The second risk is "crypto whales" enacting price manipulation, but this really only affects the greedy people who try to hop in during bull runs. I highly doubt a pump such as the 2017 one could cause a total crash of the currency's value.

As for the government (and top 0.1%) manipulating currencies, this is nothing new and guaranteed to keep happening. I recommend reading "Grunch of Giants" by Buckminster Fuller. Also check out the Federal Reserve M2 stock and notice just how much money has been printed in about a year. If you think that isn't price manipulation, think again. They are devaluing your life's savings so they can use that money to bail out airlines and other competitive businesses that frankly need to be left to fend for themselves. Instead, the average person who saves money is now forced to donate it to cover billion dollar companies who had no foresight or planning.

Crypto may not be perfect, but let me quote Peter Thiel "A bad plan is better than no plan".
 

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Sep 23, 2020
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Sorry pal, the house doesn't lose, and the house has taken long positions in BTC.

It's understandable that you're angry you're missing out on this, but your lack of buy in certainly isn't going to effect the price of BTC. It will end 2021 anywhere from 80k-100k.
It literally takes the average person maybe 10 minutes to buy/sell BTC, and that's being generous. It's really not that complex to deal with compared to building the first sexy electric car and fixing the millions of issues afterwards. One I can do in my pajamas from home, the other is way beyond most people's abilities at all, period.

And BTC is not a security, the SEC wishes they could regulate it that way, but it's a currency (hence the term "crypto currency", not "crypto security"). Would you be so up in arms if Elon tweeted about "buy Japanese Yen" (another deflationary currency)? If not, I would analyze that position a bit more :)
Nothing that Elon does make me go up in arms. Yeah I own one of his cars. He f****** me over in regards to the car's extended warranty, but there are more important things in the world.

I do find his moves fascinating in a car crash sort of way, which is part of the reason I keep up on these forums. He may be a visionary and a smooth talker, but he's an atrocious CEO.
 

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