Tesla Buys $1.5B in Bitcoin, Will Accept as Payment

[Ostrichsak]

Crypto is not used as currency, except by criminals and a vanishingly small number of legitimate transactions, too small to count.

I'm sure glad we all use the USD then since everyone knows no criminal uses it for anything nefarious. /sarcasm

Seriously, knock it off with the "only criminals use it" because that's right up there with the "Autopilot kills people" type of FUD morons are inundated with and them assume it must be true because I heard it on the news!

When you lead every single crypto currency related post with this BS it's really difficult to take anything else you have to say seriously.

 

[daniel]

Anything can be used as a currency. Currency has value only when people believe it does. That's the primary reason its called *fiat* as you are also using that term. So in your view, only criminals and investors have cryptocurrency? USDC, BUSD, PAX, DAI, those are all cryptocurrencies (that are not bitcoin) that are used for transactions by quite a few companies (and growing) that have the same value as the USD. With a value pegged to the dollar, and merchants willing to accept it (like VISA), that pretty much breaks the argument of criminals/investors HODLing it. Then again, with that same argument, you could call Disney a criminal enterprise when it printed out *Disney Dollars* which was currency used in its theme parks.


Do you know any scientists, historians, scholars, etc? I work with many. Actually, several HUNDRED of them. I'll go show them this, especially the part about *reading books and scientific papers is not research* and see what they say. Just to summarize, everything you stated above that is *not* research, is research. Especially the school, and books. Yes, even the Youtube. Some of them present really good Youtube material. It's not just for social media influencers, although there's a lot of those.




This makes no sense. Money in the bank is still fiat currency. There is no difference between a Benjamin stuffed in your mattress and $100.00 stored in a bank. In one case, $100 is represented by a piece of cloth with lots of security features and the other is electronically stored (and earns a tiny bit of interest).



No, its the demand of so many people willing to pay more than the guy next to them that raises the value of the item, not the *market* dictating the value of the item. A market is just a market. It doesn't state the value of anything, its not a Kelley Blue Book, it's not a Sports Trading card valuating company. If everyone in the world looked at a Monet and said it was the ugliest thing in the world, it's value would drop instantly.


And unfortunately, this is also not true. One only needs to look at the past government of Zimbabwe (with its 100 trillion dollar bills!), current Vietnam (500,000 VND notes), Pre-WW2 era Germany, and even great-depression era of the USA and see that governments cannot ultimately control the values of their currencies. Governments *try* to. That's what they like, that's what they make attempts to do. But its not guaranteed, it's subject to market changes, and ultimately, its not under anyone's control, really. If you want to argue with that, tell me what the cost of a dozen eggs will be in 10 years, in US dollars.

You deliberately misrepresent what I said.

Only criminals (and a vanishingly small number of other people) use crypto to buy and sell stuff. The rest of it is speculators. It's not being used as currency (to buy and sell stuff) except by criminals (and a vanishingly small number of other people).

Money in the bank is still fiat currency. But it is being used AS currency. Banks lend it out to people who spend it and the people who receive it spend it or put it in the bank where it is again loaned out to people who spend it. It circulates as currency. Crypto in a computer "wallet" is not circulating. It is not being loaned out for use as currency. This is the difference between hundred-dollar bills in your mattress and money in the bank. The former, which accounts for an infinitesimal amount of currency, is like crypto in computer wallets, which accounts for nearly all crypto. It just sits there. It is not "currency." Money in the bank does not sit in the bank. It circulates because nearly all of it is loaned out. Currency has two essential functions: To mediate common every-day purchases, and to invest in the means of production. Crypto is crappy at the first and doesn't even try to do the second.

The "market" is precisely the collective of all the people buying and selling stuff.

Not all governments manage their money supply responsibly. An argument could be made that the economy of a nation with a corrupt and irresponsible government would be better off with crypto (which is like saying that "terrible" is better than "disastrous.") But if you really think that the U.S. Fed is as corrupt and irresponsible as the nations you mention in your examples, then we really have no common ground for discussion.

 

[Exelion]

You deliberately misrepresent what I said.

Only criminals (and a vanishingly small number of other people) use crypto to buy and sell stuff. The rest of it is speculators. It's not being used as currency (to buy and sell stuff) except by criminals (and a vanishingly small number of other people).

Sorry, not buying that. And looking at others' responses in the forum, they're not either. Especially when only around 2% of it is used for illegal activity. Let's say it's even double of that, 4%. That's not something that even sounds remotely close to overwhelming majority of it used for illegal buying and selling. If I wanted to sell my buddy a flashlight and he wanted to pay me 25 USDC, and I accepted it, I suppose by your definition we are now criminals and need to be sentenced to a long life of stamping personalized Tesla license plates. At least you're now using the correct terms and not just Bitcoin.

The False Narrative Of Bitcoin’s Role In Illicit Activity

The majority of cryptocurrency is not used for criminal activity. According to an excerpt from Chainalysis’ 2021 report, in 2020, criminal activity only represented .34% of all cryptocurrency transaction volume.

www.forbes.com

Money in the bank is still fiat currency. But it is being used AS currency. Banks lend it out to people who spend it and the people who receive it spend it or put it in the bank where it is again loaned out to people who spend it. It circulates as currency.

This is a very popular media misrepresentation of how loans work, probably because its easy to describe, but it's not true. Banks don't loan out the money to people that other people deposit. If I deposited $100,000, that same $100,000 is not turned around to loan to you for your new house. If you defaulted on your payment (forever), am I now at a loss of $100,000? Guess I'm out $100,000 until Daniel pays up! Or does a bank wait until someone deposits millions or has enough capital to then open up their loan lines? No. What the bank does is write it in their books, balancing their sheets, money lent vs money deposited. But they're not directly related. They can give out much larger loans than the actual money they receive in deposits. That's actually the primary reason why bank runs can destroy a bank. They actually do loan out a lot more than they have deposits.

Crypto in a computer "wallet" is not circulating. It is not being loaned out for use as currency. This is the difference between hundred-dollar bills in your mattress and money in the bank. The former, which accounts for an infinitesimal amount of currency, is like crypto in computer wallets, which accounts for nearly all crypto. It just sits there. It is not "currency." Money in the bank does not sit in the bank. It circulates because nearly all of it is loaned out. Currency has two essential functions: To mediate common every-day purchases, and to invest in the means of production. Crypto is crappy at the first and doesn't even try to do the second.

Crypto circulates the exact same way money can circulate. I know of two coinhouses (crypto exchanges) that pay interest on accounts. One gives out 8.6% APY. (Yes really) and another up to 12%. The former pays monthly the latter, daily. It's a lot, I know. But of course its risky, so buyer beware. Those coinhouses work the same way a bank does. They take deposits, pay interest, and loan out crypto. The point I'm making is the actions of a bank, or coinhouse, has nothing to do with what a currency is. If a school decided that they'll now use sticks of gum in its campus as currency, and a kid makes a gumstick bank and pays out interest on gum deposits, are we saying that the gum is a currency only because the kid's bank validated it as so? No. Other kids trading gum made the gum a currency, or the school stating they will use that as currency (and imposed it on the students) made it so.

Not all governments manage their money supply responsibly. An argument could be made that the economy of a nation with a corrupt and irresponsible government would be better off with crypto (which is like saying that "terrible" is better than "disastrous.") But if you really think that the U.S. Fed is as corrupt and irresponsible as the nations you mention in your examples, then we really have no common ground for discussion.

And the misrepresentation goes around and around. I said the government is not in ultimate control of its printed currency. It tries to, and corrupt governments do a bad job of it, but even competent ones have problems now and then. Like the US in the 1930's.

 

[daniel]

We're going around in circles. I've said what I have to say and I stand by it. All the best to you.

 

[PawelM]

I think it just marketing. Or they really have a massive b2b strategy for each other.

 

[Cleo-n-Company]

I think it just marketing. Or they really have a massive b2b strategy for each other.

Much of the crypto mantra reminds me of a finance professor I had way back when.

His message was in regards to the stock market - but the reasoning still applies.

If I really had the golden key to making money off of crypto - why would I share it with anyone else ? I'd keep my mouth shut, make billions in the process, and never utter a word about my "brilliant" money moves.

Anyone sure enough of the veracity / uptake and future of crypto would do the same.

Unless... it consistently needed an infusion of new money.

I think we refer to that as a Ponzi scheme.

 

[PawelM]

I think it just marketing. Or they really have a massive b2b strategy for each other.

They can also use other tools and technologies to help in B2B lead generation by belkins.io/lead-research. One tool is a phone tracking system that is able to record the name, number and other details associated with each caller. This way, you will be able to identify which calls are of interest to you and which aren't. This can be very helpful, especially when you want to follow up with potential customers.

 

[compiling]

When do we think Tesla will accept Bitcoin for payment again?