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Tesla CCS fast charging adapter?
- Thread starter mattack4000
- Start date
Why is such an adapter impossible to build? It is all volts and amps when it comes down your right? I mean the ccs has to connect to something that eventually justs closes the connector so the charge flows, can an adapter be just that handshake part? In the extreme case, one can make an entire ccs equipped car be the adapter and just charge off that cars HV battery. So scale that down and just have the bare minimum necessary bits.
Or is this one of those patent and legal things that makes it not pemissible? Rather than actually not possible.
Or is this one of those patent and legal things that makes it not pemissible? Rather than actually not possible.
eyedrop
Member
Maybe it has to do with the way the car "shakes hands" with the charging station before starting the charge. Im thinking that CCS might have a specific data link and communication protocol which is incompatible with Tesla. Perhaps Chademo is less picky in this respect. Just speculating here...
Several reasons, the main ones being:
1. Virtually all CCS stations in the US have CHADeMo also, so why bother?
2. CHADeMo signaling is pretty basic compared to CCS.
3. CCS is a dead standard. With CCS3 on the horizon, why build to an already out of date standard?
1. Virtually all CCS stations in the US have CHADeMo also, so why bother?
2. CHADeMo signaling is pretty basic compared to CCS.
3. CCS is a dead standard. With CCS3 on the horizon, why build to an already out of date standard?
eyedrop
Member
A bit off topic, but out of curiosity, what is the timeline like for rolling out these new CCS3 charging stations in the USA? I live in Arizona, and the vast majority of current DCFC stations are ghetto Blink chargers under 40kW with broken screens, inoperable units, and no real effort put in to improve charging speeds, let alone maintain the units. What are they gonna do with all of these dated chademo/ccs stations?
Is it just me or is this new 150kW-350kW standard just all talk and no walk? A quick search shows that they are barely begining plans to install these new stations in Europe and practically none even exist yet, while Tesla has been 100kW+ for years already.
It seems like by the time these automakers and random third party charging providers roll everything out in 2020, it’s gonna be too late. By then, Tesla will likely have production figured out, an even better supercharger network, and next gen battery tech.... Are these companies even a threat to Tesla?
Is it just me or is this new 150kW-350kW standard just all talk and no walk? A quick search shows that they are barely begining plans to install these new stations in Europe and practically none even exist yet, while Tesla has been 100kW+ for years already.
It seems like by the time these automakers and random third party charging providers roll everything out in 2020, it’s gonna be too late. By then, Tesla will likely have production figured out, an even better supercharger network, and next gen battery tech.... Are these companies even a threat to Tesla?
zmarty
Member
The VW "we screwed up so we are forced to install chargers in the US" charger network will also have CCS ports:
Welcome to Electrify America | Commitment
VW’s Electrify America partners with Walmart for the deployment of its ‘ultra-fast’ charging stations
Welcome to Electrify America | Commitment
VW’s Electrify America partners with Walmart for the deployment of its ‘ultra-fast’ charging stations
kingjamez
Member
This is the reason I want a CCS adapter. I think Walmarts are pretty good locations for long distance supercharging. Generally clean bathrooms, most open 24/7, well lit at night. I hope they expand to all Walmarts.
Not only will the VW network have CCS, but the CCS will charge at 150kW+, whereas the Chademo ports will be 50 kW only.
One reason for no CCS adapter is that it is supposedly not allowed in the standard.
One reason for no CCS adapter is that it is supposedly not allowed in the standard.
CCS is a very flexible standard taht allows for a virtually limitless set of options for payment, using an ac communications protocol from Homelink. CharIN is the parent:
News
Nearly every manufacturer, including Tesla is a member. It is by far the fastest growing standard, but in NA we'll not see it reach anything close to expected mass until about 2020. It currently does not permit adapters, but probably that will change sometime around 2020, probably with limits on voltage and amperage.
For context, just look at all the members, which include many electric utilities, equipment manufacturers and charging networks, as well as vehicle manufacturers.
CCS is all about the future not the present day. For now it's irrelevant to Tesla users. Soon it will be ubiquitous, 'soon' meaning in two years time.
FWIW, Tesla could very easily install native CCS, since the communications capability already exists in Tesla vehicles. Adapters will be harder. Personally I am convinced that by 2020 most new Teslas will be CCS capable but I have no hard evidence to support my view.If not why is Tesla a full member of CharIN?
News
Nearly every manufacturer, including Tesla is a member. It is by far the fastest growing standard, but in NA we'll not see it reach anything close to expected mass until about 2020. It currently does not permit adapters, but probably that will change sometime around 2020, probably with limits on voltage and amperage.
For context, just look at all the members, which include many electric utilities, equipment manufacturers and charging networks, as well as vehicle manufacturers.
CCS is all about the future not the present day. For now it's irrelevant to Tesla users. Soon it will be ubiquitous, 'soon' meaning in two years time.
FWIW, Tesla could very easily install native CCS, since the communications capability already exists in Tesla vehicles. Adapters will be harder. Personally I am convinced that by 2020 most new Teslas will be CCS capable but I have no hard evidence to support my view.If not why is Tesla a full member of CharIN?
Tesla will not go to CCS any time soon. It already has a massive base of the Tesla style handles and cars on the road. They are the only long distance charging network in the US. CCS and CHADeMo or literally anyone, will never, ever be able to match the Tesla network in the next decade for long distance charging, so there is absolutely no reason what so ever for Tesla to deviate from their standard. This applies only to the US of course, different countries will have different probabilities.
Next gen CHAdeMo will support high voltage charging as well, same as CCS, so that's not really an argument for or against CCS. Same goes for Tesla chargers and their Gigacharger.
CCS may eventually dominate, but it won't be any time soon. Certainly not by 2020. Maybe by the end of the next decade. Maybe. Part of the problem is the unwieldy connector (same applies to CHADemo). The general public doesn't want to deal with that dumbshittery that is both CHADeMo and CCS connectors. They are clearly designed by committee. If you have to use 2 hands to haul around the connector, it's going to be a failure, guaranteed.
Next gen CHAdeMo will support high voltage charging as well, same as CCS, so that's not really an argument for or against CCS. Same goes for Tesla chargers and their Gigacharger.
CCS may eventually dominate, but it won't be any time soon. Certainly not by 2020. Maybe by the end of the next decade. Maybe. Part of the problem is the unwieldy connector (same applies to CHADemo). The general public doesn't want to deal with that dumbshittery that is both CHADeMo and CCS connectors. They are clearly designed by committee. If you have to use 2 hands to haul around the connector, it's going to be a failure, guaranteed.
You may be a trifle shortsighted due too the current situation. Tesla will support CCS in Europe (Mennekes 2 plus two pins) but teh US (J1772 plus two pins) remains to be seen. Converting all of Tesla to something else is less of an issue than you might think, they are connectors, not all the infrastructure. I have used both CHAdeMO and CCS, the former with an adapter, both with one hand. They are certainly more cumbersome than the NA Tesla ones, but the truth is not so difficult as Tesla NA fans make it out to be. remember that the Tesla one originated before there was another standard.
Anyway as charging voltage and amperage rises the existing Tesla connector will be replaced anyway to allow for more connector capacity. When is another question.
OTOH, the vast majority of BEV's that are arriving during the next five years are to be CCS. Face it, that is the new standard, like it or not. We have little infrastructure today but taht is changing by the day. Like it or not it is coming.
It is all rather like the sudden adoption of turbine (turbojet and turboprop) aircraft. Overnight the world changed.
mblakele
FSD Beta (99)
Tesla could migrate to CCS over a period of many years, by adding a CCS port on the other side of the vehicle. The Model 3 already looks like it was designed to support this option, and it could be added to the S and X with minor redesigns. That would open the door for a slow migration: new SC pedestals would have dual connectors, eventually replacing all the old pedestals too. By then most of the old single-port cars would be off the road, and it'd make sense to build CCS-only Teslas.
Maybe we'll see evidence of a plan like this as we learn more about the Y or Semi design. The Semi prototypes seem to be using multiple SC ports, but I expect the finished MegaCharger design to use a single connection.
Maybe we'll see evidence of a plan like this as we learn more about the Y or Semi design. The Semi prototypes seem to be using multiple SC ports, but I expect the finished MegaCharger design to use a single connection.
Short-sighted? You are dreaming if you think CCS is going to be the dominant standard in the US in a mere 2 years. There is literally no possible way this can happen short of a governmental coup, a dictator is installed (And evil Elon Musk with a mustache?), and he decrees and vast amounts of governmental resources will now be dedicated to deploying CCS. That is literally the only way you'll see CCS being the dominant connector in the US by 2020 (a paltry 1.5 years from now).
It would be time and cost, not to mention design prohibitive to retrofit all Teslas with CCS connectors. Tesla will NEVER do that... they probably would never do it even if it was at the users cost... and why would they? Their Supercharging network is massive and growing, there's literally no reason for Tesla to switch. You can charge your Tesla virtually anywhere in a populated area at this point, and as they install more city chargers, that will only solidify this position even further.
As for you having used both CHADeMo and CCS, so have I. The CHADeMo charger is a joke bulk wise, so is CCS to a bit lesser degree. But that doesn't matter, you are (presumably) an adult male. You are not a petite female. There's lots of things you can do with one hand that are impractical for 50% or more of the population. I I'm 6'2" and I detest having to use the CHADeMo connector. It's offensive in it's design, as it is pointlessly bulky. It's like a Fisher-price version of a charger.
So, the BEVs that are arriving in the next 5 years are going to push the CCS standard to be ubiquitous in the next 1.5 years? I'm not following that logic. Usually the ubiquity of a standard lags the deployment, not the other way around? Again... we MIGHT see CCS as the dominant standard in 10 years, but we absolutely will not see it by 2020.
It's not a matter of one "dominating" the other. It's a matter of maximizing charging opportunities and flexibility for Tesla owners as CCS becomes more and more common.
Canuck
Well-Known Member
I'll just be happy if they can get the Chademo adaptor to work with the Model 3.
It's pretty obvious that CCS is going to be the dominant standard in the US. The German vehicles that are coming will be using CCS. Jaguar's iPace, which looks to be a viable alternative to Model X, is also CCS-based. I believe CCS scales in power up to 350 kW and will support 800v batteries that will be used in future generations of vehicles.
I agree. The model 3 port can physically accommodate both the Tesla and CCS receptacles. I think that the only reason that we haven't seen it in the 3 is that they don't want to put that feature on the 3, until it's available on the S. And for that we're waiting on the eventual refresh, which is rumored to include a rear end rework - and likely the additional CCS port.
