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Tesla chose to do what it does best: half-ass it

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That's true. I fully expect that future features will exceed what HW2.5 is capable of. Having said that, I also expect them to be FSD-only, and anyone in China who buys FSD gets HW3.0.

So in the short time that HW3 has been around we have already seen non-FSD owners benefit. But moving forward you expect no further improvements outside of FSD? What is the basis of you drawing this conclusion?
 
So in the short time that HW3 has been around we have already seen non-FSD owners benefit. But moving forward you expect no further improvements outside of FSD? What is the basis of you drawing this conclusion?
Well, the reason they upgraded from HW2.5 to HW3.0 was to provide the computing power needed to do image analysis for FSD. That's why the stop sign and streetlight feature is unavailable on the old hardware: it just can't handle the load.

The old hardware can still do everything else, but FSD-related analysis is particularly taxing. That's why people who paid for FSD in China had to get the new one, while everyone else got the old.

As they add more functionality for FSD, it's obviously going to require HW3.0 to function because it needs the raw power. But why should other features require the improved hardware? What other feature is so computationally taxing that it can't be done just fine on slightly older equipment?

Now, maybe there's an answer to that; I could be wrong. Maybe the new Caraoke will have AI that requires a GPU to analyze your voice and autotune it or sing along in perfect harmony. Maybe it'll come with a new video game with awesome graphics at 60 fps. Maybe.

But everything we know suggests that HW2.5 will continue to work just fine for those who didn't pay for FSD and any feature they miss out on would be FSD-related. FSD is the reason for HW3.0 existing in the first place.

In any case, this is ultimately a communication issue. If Tesla had just said, "Hey, if you order FSD, you get HW3.0, but otherwise you get HW2.5 because it's good enough for everything else" then there wouldn't be all this panic and scandal.
 
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Its not a "communications issue", its a "bait and switch". No different than
  • you research and settle on the latest MacBook Pro model as they use the latest Intel processors and are faster rather than getting a used one for less money.
  • you go in and buy one with the latest manufacturing date shown, then find out it actually has the previous gen, slower processor in it
  • you do some further research and find out that this is only the case for MacBooks bought at the store where you shopped
So when you call Apple about it are you happy when they say "yea, people in your area are less advanced and don't need the faster processor so we just cleared out some old processor inventory to get rid of it. It costs us less, but we're not going to pass along the savings to you because, well, we know best and don't have to".

Tesla tried a bait-and-switch in a country where they had managed to setup operations without a local partner for the first time. Now they're busted for this sham. Way to pee in the pool for every other US company trying to setup ops in China without a local partner. Elon should roll some heads for this one...
 
Its not a "communications issue", its a "bait and switch". No different than
  • you research and settle on the latest MacBook Pro model as they use the latest Intel processors and are faster rather than getting a used one for less money.
  • you go in and buy one with the latest manufacturing date shown, then find out it actually has the previous gen, slower processor in it
  • you do some further research and find out that this is only the case for MacBooks bought at the store where you shopped
So when you call Apple about it are you happy when they say "yea, people in your area are less advanced and don't need the faster processor so we just cleared out some old processor inventory to get rid of it. It costs us less, but we're not going to pass along the savings to you because, well, we know best and don't have to".

Tesla tried a bait-and-switch in a country where they had managed to setup operations without a local partner for the first time. Now they're busted for this sham. Way to pee in the pool for every other US company trying to setup ops in China without a local partner. Elon should roll some heads for this one...
The reason I can't agree with this is that HW3.0 is not comparable to a notebook computer. The notebook is general-purpose. If you have more power, you can run more stuff, or more hungry stuff, or run stuff faster. The HW3.0 runs only what Tesla puts on it. Any excess capacity is wasted.
 
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Elon should roll some heads for this one...

If there is one thing I’ve learned since I started paying attention to Tesla, it is that nothing happens in this company without Elon’s knowledge and approval. I have no doubt that he was directly involved with the decision to keep the production line in China rolling in spite of the fact that they could not secure enough HW3 chips to meet demand. Nobody else in the company would have made that decision without checking with Elon first. As brilliant as Elon is, he has not proven to be a solid decision maker when it comes to managing customer service issues.
 
I totally expect that Autopilot that uses the HW3.0 is and will be better performing than the version that runs on 2 HW2.5. The fact the hazards are only visualized on HW3.0 is a pretty clear indication of that. This is not about enable or disabled FSD like Tesla wants to make it sound and it's for sure not a miscommunication.

Tesla is not a transparent company. So far, it is successful and innovative but for sure not transparent. If anyone wants to ask me how I know I will be glad to share my story, on why I end up selling my M3P out of frustration and disappointment. It is not about the HW version so I won't bring it up in this thread.
 
I totally expect that Autopilot that uses the 3.0HW is and will be better performing than the version that runs on 2.5HW. The fact the hazards are only visualized on 3.HW is a pretty clear indication of that. This is not about FSB enable or disabled like Tesla wants to make it sound and it's for sure not a miscommunication.

Tesla is not a transparent company. So far, it is successful and innovative but for sure not transparent. If anyone wants to ask me how I know I will be glad to share my story, on why I end up selling my M3P out of frustration and disappointment. It is not about the HW version so I won't bring it up in this thread.
I'm certainly willing to listen. Post it to the appropriate area and maybe link to it from here.
 
If there is one thing I’ve learned since I started paying attention to Tesla, it is that nothing happens in this company without Elon’s knowledge and approval. I have no doubt that he was directly involved with the decision to keep the production line in China rolling in spite of the fact that they could not secure enough HW3 chips to meet demand. Nobody else in the company would have made that decision without checking with Elon first. As brilliant as Elon is, he has not proven to be a solid decision maker when it comes to managing customer service issues.


It's just not a good thing to do as a "foreign" automaker in China. When the Chinese government gets mad - they get MAD!
 
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I love it when people hit the "disagree" link but do not post at all. It is flaccid opposition without substance.

And foolish in this case too, because I read this as you preferring Tesla to stop all deliveries even for customers who do not benefit from HW3 at all. The only reason why anyone would prefer that is to put pressure on the SP.

Edit: Looking at the other feedback by a certain account, a trend emerges.
 
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Its not a "communications issue", its a "bait and switch". No different than
  • you research and settle on the latest MacBook Pro model as they use the latest Intel processors and are faster rather than getting a used one for less money.
  • you go in and buy one with the latest manufacturing date shown, then find out it actually has the previous gen, slower processor in it
  • you do some further research and find out that this is only the case for MacBooks bought at the store where you shopped
So when you call Apple about it are you happy when they say "yea, people in your area are less advanced and don't need the faster processor so we just cleared out some old processor inventory to get rid of it. It costs us less, but we're not going to pass along the savings to you because, well, we know best and don't have to".

Tesla tried a bait-and-switch in a country where they had managed to setup operations without a local partner for the first time. Now they're busted for this sham. Way to pee in the pool for every other US company trying to setup ops in China without a local partner. Elon should roll some heads for this one...
Don't be a drama queen. I got my HW3 upgrade yesterday - no fuss, excellent service.
 
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Its not a "communications issue", its a "bait and switch". No different than
  • you research and settle on the latest MacBook Pro model as they use the latest Intel processors and are faster rather than getting a used one for less money.
  • you go in and buy one with the latest manufacturing date shown, then find out it actually has the previous gen, slower processor in it
  • you do some further research and find out that this is only the case for MacBooks bought at the store where you shopped
So when you call Apple about it are you happy when they say "yea, people in your area are less advanced and don't need the faster processor so we just cleared out some old processor inventory to get rid of it. It costs us less, but we're not going to pass along the savings to you because, well, we know best and don't have to".

Tesla tried a bait-and-switch in a country where they had managed to setup operations without a local partner for the first time. Now they're busted for this sham. Way to pee in the pool for every other US company trying to setup ops in China without a local partner. Elon should roll some heads for this one...


Before you go nuts, Apple changes chips all the time. Except for the thing Apple publishes as product feature, the chips inside changes all the time. For example the iPhone 6 sold in India (If I recall right) didn’t have dual cdma / gsm capabilities while other regions did.
Also many non US iPhones have intel built modems and not the Qualcomm modems they had in US.

Tesla sells autopilot feature and they will upgrade the chip if you buy the FSD later.
 
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they should just be upfront and say you are only guaranteed 2.5 if you don't buy FSD,
Agreed - they could just be upfront about that, stop saying that all cars come with all the hardware needed for FSD (or explicitly say all HW except the FSD computer, which is easily updated at no extra charge when purchasing FSD), and then there'd be no issue.

especially since they have plenty of 2.5 units piling up from retrofits..
This isn't relevant. At least, it REALLY shouldn't be. They can't take used parts taken from retrofits and then fit them to brand new cars on the line - if they did that then they'd have a much bigger problem if/when it was discovered.
 
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If I were the customer, I would like to be told that there was a shortage and that I could :
A - delay the delivery of my car until the part was in.
B - take a car with the old part, and get replaced when available.
C - take a hike.

What I would like about this, is that it would be my choice. I would not like the car company making the choice for me.
 
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