So if I want to put my stock lights back in so this doesn’t happen to me, do I just switch out the door lights? Or are you referring to the light over the floor mats as well? I’m in Vancouver.
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Tesla Claims Warranty is Void Due to Aftermarket Puddle Lights
- Thread starter ps134
- Start date
Hell I would .. who knows what Telsa would say .. but i think this discussion is about just the puddle lights. but who knows what trickery they wired into the footwell lights. Maybe the brakes fail when those go out lol.
Also, comparing a LED light over your tennis courts to a micro LED light made for 2 cents somewhere in India is very different. The operating environment is also very different. Slamming a car door over and over not to mention all the NVH associated with just driving the vehicle are huge drivers for electronics failures.
The tesla tech already told me this happens often and the 1st thing he looks for is the puddle light to see if they can weasel out of a claim. Yeah I get that Tesla could say you replaced the light, thats on you .. i think that is still arguable in court since the design is so bad, it is negligent.
Does anyone have experience with trying to open a door that doesnt retract a window ? How hard is it ? I dont want to try it as i dont want to break my window, or window frame but I seriously wonder how hard it would be for someone stuck inside a burning or sinking vehicle who is half incapacitated from crash to force the door open when the window is stuck in the roof ? This seems like a giant lawsuit waiting to happen...
The smart play here would of been to design the window to rest flush against a seal, not up in a channel. Yeah its prob not as aerodymanic or quiet that way, but its a much safer design. Not even mentioning the puddle light wiring issue, which makes this like playing russian roulette with 3 bullets in the chambers. Wish we could talk to a Tesla body EE, i bet there was some discussion on all this and there is some underlying reason.
--edit -- oh and that rear spoiler they stuck on for the 3rd try ... is also peeling off again lol. Ive already texted them again we can keep doing this everyday if they want. So I'll get another mobile tech and ask again about this puddle light and window nonsense. Im not sure I understand Tesla yet. They seem to be the smartest in some ways but clueless with really simple stuff .. idiot savants ..
Also, comparing a LED light over your tennis courts to a micro LED light made for 2 cents somewhere in India is very different. The operating environment is also very different. Slamming a car door over and over not to mention all the NVH associated with just driving the vehicle are huge drivers for electronics failures.
The tesla tech already told me this happens often and the 1st thing he looks for is the puddle light to see if they can weasel out of a claim. Yeah I get that Tesla could say you replaced the light, thats on you .. i think that is still arguable in court since the design is so bad, it is negligent.
Does anyone have experience with trying to open a door that doesnt retract a window ? How hard is it ? I dont want to try it as i dont want to break my window, or window frame but I seriously wonder how hard it would be for someone stuck inside a burning or sinking vehicle who is half incapacitated from crash to force the door open when the window is stuck in the roof ? This seems like a giant lawsuit waiting to happen...
The smart play here would of been to design the window to rest flush against a seal, not up in a channel. Yeah its prob not as aerodymanic or quiet that way, but its a much safer design. Not even mentioning the puddle light wiring issue, which makes this like playing russian roulette with 3 bullets in the chambers. Wish we could talk to a Tesla body EE, i bet there was some discussion on all this and there is some underlying reason.
--edit -- oh and that rear spoiler they stuck on for the 3rd try ... is also peeling off again lol. Ive already texted them again we can keep doing this everyday if they want. So I'll get another mobile tech and ask again about this puddle light and window nonsense. Im not sure I understand Tesla yet. They seem to be the smartest in some ways but clueless with really simple stuff .. idiot savants ..
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a2t2: "...what trickery they wired..."
"...to see if they can weasel out of a claim..."
"...is so bad, it is negligent..."
"...seems like a giant lawsuit waiting to happen..."
"... idiot savants..."
Wow. While your issues are worthy of discussion, your tone is alarming. You clearly don't have any confidence in your $50k+ car from Tesla. You sound absolutely miserable.
With all due respect, sell your car.
"...to see if they can weasel out of a claim..."
"...is so bad, it is negligent..."
"...seems like a giant lawsuit waiting to happen..."
"... idiot savants..."
Wow. While your issues are worthy of discussion, your tone is alarming. You clearly don't have any confidence in your $50k+ car from Tesla. You sound absolutely miserable.
With all due respect, sell your car.
Meteile
Member
what about small claims court? Cost 'em more to show up than fix it. Plus let the newspapers in on it.
thesmokingman
Active Member
And yea as mentioned small claims court. It will cost nothing to us but an afternoon (time) other than the fee obviously, however it will cost Tesla magnitudes more to show up. And the point isn't to take them to court for 460, it's to show that we won't take this BS.
Meteile
Member
Nope, but get some kinda quackpot, red state AG that’s got a hard on to nail Tesla to the wall and help out his oil and gas buddies…and then you might have something cooking.
My honest criticism is only to point out how they can improve so maybe they hear it and make changes
I have a mostly love relationship with this car but can’t understand why it has seemingly idiotic short comings like foolish wiring (add that quote to my running tab)
quote me on car play, cross traffic and blind spot warning while your at it.
but I’d deal with all if you could actually get me the epa range out of this thing. Then I would definitely keep it and you would be stuck with me forever on here
I have a mostly love relationship with this car but can’t understand why it has seemingly idiotic short comings like foolish wiring (add that quote to my running tab)
quote me on car play, cross traffic and blind spot warning while your at it.
but I’d deal with all if you could actually get me the epa range out of this thing. Then I would definitely keep it and you would be stuck with me forever on here
I suspect this design is a conscious decision. It is very unlikely some inexperienced engineer or half-ass optimization software blindly saw the 100% correlation between the door close sensor and puddle light and prematurely optimized the wiring this way and it slipped through review and QA. If this doesn't pass us armchair critics, it wouldn't pass the 100s of ingenious Tesla engineers.
I think it is probably a calculated risk taken by Tesla as an effort to reduce costs. In this case, the real safety risk associated with this design is very low (although we could identify some edge cases, they aren't anything more dangerous than running over a nail). Roughly speaking, if this design can result in just $1 cost saving per car in parts and labours, and the puddle lights have 1 failure in 1000 cars post delivery (which sounds quite high for LEDs on DC circuits), and the failure will result in a $400 warranty repair (OP had to pay CA$460 so this is also a generous estimation), we can do the math: saving of $1000 at a cost of $400 - net gain is $600 cost saving per 1000 cars. I'm sure the actual cost saving to Tesla is more than this because the saved cost could be more, the failure rate can be lower, rear glasses are cheaper. and not every puddle light failure will result in broken glass.
a2t2: I understand your rant, and your follow-up post makes sense. jjgg spells out the (speculated) logic behind the design, and I agree with him. There are thousands of compromises in R&D, with decisions that have risks. The puddle light/window power just happens to be one that has been exposed by the (faulty) design/installation of after market products. (Is Abstract Ocean the only vendor that clearly spells this out?)
If there are enough failures of the OEM puddle light circuitry, I'm confident Tesla would address the design with an updated part.
If there are enough failures of the OEM puddle light circuitry, I'm confident Tesla would address the design with an updated part.
jf64k
Member
We’ve had the AO lights in both of our MYs for over a year now with zero issues. I think this is a great point…as we all know, aftermarket accessories vary greatly in quality. Yes, Aliexpress has some great deals, but for electrical stuff, I’m willing to pay a little more for peace of mind.
I met the AO owners while picking up a product. Very nice, dedicated, and devoted folk, and AFAIK, their products are all first-rate, so they're careful how they source them. (Plus they're local to me, in the DFW region, so I always pick up!)
NY_Rob
Member
If it was indeed the case that the window motor grounds through the puddle light harness, it would be a pretty simple matter to add a backup body ground to the circuit between the motor and it's quick connector. But, I shutter to think what adding an independent ground to the window motor might do... either the roof will eject or the brakes will fail
linux-works
Active Member
so many things can fail. you have to look at every single exchange point; crimp on wire, how well the wire was stripped, was the crimped terminal making good contact with the mating terminal, is there any oxidation, temperature expansion intermittences, etc etc. that is just PHYSICAL; we haven't even started the electrical chain.
its not just an led. every. single. link. has. to. be. examined. for. failure. modes. and. added. up.
(sorry, my keyboard was stuck. it also failed QA test, it seeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeems)
linux-works
Active Member
creating multiple grounds can create a current flowing and that could create an oscillation which could be mis-interpreted by the power mgmt system.If it was indeed the case that the window motor grounds through the puddle light harness, it would be a pretty simple matter to add a backup body ground to the circuit between the motor and it's quick connector. But, I shutter to think what adding an independent ground to the window motor might do... either the roof will eject or the brakes will fail
wiring in modern cars is a delicate balance. dont assume things.
NY_Rob
Member
... so the roof will fly off then? Okay got it
linux-works
Active Member
if it was me, I would model the behavior of that puddle light and create a robust circuit that emulates it, while providing a separate power and ground to a light that you wanted to install.
THAT is the way to do this. I have no idea if any vendors DO this, but just hacking grounds is really wrong.
a resistive element that models the light might be a first try. sensing current and triggering the light is not hard but do the simulated light part, first.
if you are not into this, then dont monkey around at all. its that simple. tesla made changing this out harder than it has to be, and if you want that light thingie, you have to spend extra effort (or someone does). thank tesla for not knowing that inline circuits can fail and YOU NEVER DERIVE CURRENT GROUNDS *THRU* CIRCUITS.
sheesh. another intern design, no doubt.
THAT is the way to do this. I have no idea if any vendors DO this, but just hacking grounds is really wrong.
a resistive element that models the light might be a first try. sensing current and triggering the light is not hard but do the simulated light part, first.
if you are not into this, then dont monkey around at all. its that simple. tesla made changing this out harder than it has to be, and if you want that light thingie, you have to spend extra effort (or someone does). thank tesla for not knowing that inline circuits can fail and YOU NEVER DERIVE CURRENT GROUNDS *THRU* CIRCUITS.
sheesh. another intern design, no doubt.
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