ucmndd
Well-Known Member
You seem to have incorrect assumptions about what exactly it is you purchased. That’s unfortunate, but ultimately immaterial.Not if I paid $90k for a phone number to modem into.
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You seem to have incorrect assumptions about what exactly it is you purchased. That’s unfortunate, but ultimately immaterial.Not if I paid $90k for a phone number to modem into.
That has come back in the 2020.4.x versions that are required to maintain connectivity.
Looks like he misread "modern" as "modem".You seem to have incorrect assumptions about what exactly it is you purchased. That’s unfortunate, but ultimately immaterial.
Tesla says my car does not qualify for 2020.4.x. They tell me the most current version for my 2013 P85 is 2019.40.2.3. So I do not get that feature back.
I wonder what is holding your car back. TeslaFi shows more than 80% of the non-AP cars have already been updated to 2020.4.1. Maybe 2019.40.2.3 is a pre-requisite for 2020.4.1?
You seem to have incorrect assumptions about what exactly it is you purchased. That’s unfortunate, but ultimately immaterial.
I have no idea. Then again, when I complained about the loss of range to my car, Tesla service indicated that a unique BMS firmware had been installed on my car.
Okay, then. Obviously, if property law and purchase agreements cover you as you say - then why are you wasting time posting here when you can be seeking class-action relief in court? Why hasn't ANYONE sued Tesla for this practice?Complete BS, Tesla sold me a CAR! Tesla did not sell me a "computer on wheels"!
Not according to property law and my purchase agreement!
I most certainly DID BUY THOSE FEATURES. They were offered as part of the car!
Okay, then. Obviously, if property law and purchase agreements cover you as you say - then why are you wasting time posting here when you can be seeking class-action relief in court? Why hasn't ANYONE sued Tesla for this practice?
Or, maybe it's your assumptions are incorrect? You seem to be equating buying a Tesla to a software subscription, except that is not how it's sold. Had Tesla said they are selling a car a subscription, maybe say "for $100K you get a pre-paid lifetime subscription to our service, with no guarantees as for what features you will be able to use, while we reserve the right to strip the subscription down to "paperweight" status any time we decide your hardware is too expensive to support", then you'd be correct. Of course, almost nobody would buy such cars knowing the manufacturer reserves the right to disable your car whenever it becomes too inconvenient to support. Of course Tesla could also make it completely Car as a Service, so charge monthly, but when the customer is no longer satisfied with the subscription they just turn the car back in and stop paying the subscription - I suspect that would be way to expensive, akin to car rental since users can cancel any time (or some pre-paid subscription term) when they decide the subscription is no longer worth the payment.You seem to have incorrect assumptions about what exactly it is you purchased. That’s unfortunate, but ultimately immaterial.
In any case - you are not entitled to decide to decline software updates at any arbitrary point in your ownership and expect support and connectivity in perpetuity. It just doesn’t work that way. Either accept the updates, and the good and bad that comes with them, or accept that you might get left behind. I’m not taking a side on the whole batterygate thing - and frankly that probably needs to be (literally) litigated on its own merits. But the idea that you have the right to expect service on your terms, at any arbitrary software stopping point you may choose, for the lifetime of your vehicle, is absurd.Or, maybe it's your assumptions are incorrect? You seem to be equating buying a Tesla to a software subscription, except that is not how it's sold. Had Tesla said they are selling a car a subscription, maybe say "for $100K you get a pre-paid lifetime subscription to our service, with no guarantees as for what features you will be able to use, while we reserve the right to strip the subscription down to "paperweight" status any time we decide your hardware is too expensive to support", then you'd be correct. Of course, almost nobody would buy such cars knowing the manufacturer reserves the right to disable your car whenever it becomes too inconvenient to support. Of course Tesla could also make it completely Car as a Service, so charge monthly, but when the customer is no longer satisfied with the subscription they just turn the car back in and stop paying the subscription - I suspect that would be way to expensive, akin to car rental since users can cancel any time (or some pre-paid subscription term) when they decide the subscription is no longer worth the payment.
Bottom line is, Tesla is marketing their products as automobiles they sell, not a subscription, therefore your assumptions seem completely incorrect, and I guess also ultimately immaterial.
In any case - you are not entitled to decide to decline software updates at any arbitrary point in your ownership and expect support and connectivity in perpetuity. It just doesn’t work that way. Either accept the updates, and the good and bad that comes with them, or accept that you might get left behind. I’m not taking a side on the whole batterygate thing - and frankly that probably needs to be (literally) litigated on its own merits. But the idea that you have the right to expect service on your terms, at any arbitrary software stopping point you may choose, for the lifetime of your vehicle, is absurd.
I beg to differ. All we’re talking about here is connectivity, so let’s leave out the warranty discussion or anything else - and there was no guarantee that connectivity was provided in perpetuity at any point with the classic model S. If you can find something that says so I’d love to see it. When I bought in 2016 it was “4 years”.Sorry, but there is NO requirement that owners of Classic Model S vehicles (vehicles that have no AP, adaptive cruise control, etc.) update the firmware on their cars when new versions are released in order to maintain warranty coverage, connectivity usage, app usage, etc. That requirement was not mandated by Tesla until recently, and can not legally be required of the owners that purchased cars prior to the introduction of that requirement.
I beg to differ. All we’re talking about here is connectivity, so let’s leave out the warranty discussion or anything else - and there was no guarantee that connectivity was provided in perpetuity at any point with the classic model S. If you can find something that says so I’d love to see it. When I bought in 2016 it was “4 years”.
But if you think you’ve got a case, and Tesla is obligated to provide you connectivity, on any firmware version you so desire, forever - by all means, take it to court. Let me know how that works out for ya.
good news. Tesla lied and 2019.16.x.x software would work mostly fine after they stop vpn service. this is because the real tideover to "hermes" happened in 2019.8.x, so the only problem you will experience is if they stop openvpn service, your car will keep tryign to reconnect wich would increase the logging and add some cpu load, but at least the functionality should be fine I believe.Why should 2019.16.X.X software be insufficient for security? Which is what I am running right now?
Connectivity, I agree. However:In any case - you are not entitled to decide to decline software updates at any arbitrary point in your ownership and expect support and connectivity in perpetuity. It just doesn’t work that way. Either accept the updates, and the good and bad that comes with them, or accept that you might get left behind. I’m not taking a side on the whole batterygate thing - and frankly that probably needs to be (literally) litigated on its own merits. But the idea that you have the right to expect service on your terms, at any arbitrary software stopping point you may choose, for the lifetime of your vehicle, is absurd.
I beg to differ. All we’re talking about here is connectivity, so let’s leave out the warranty discussion or anything else
By law, the warranty that applies to your vehicle is the warranty that was available at the time of purchase. Neither Tesla nor their agents can change the terms of that warranty after the purchase. I have a paper copy of the warranty at the TOP of my model S (Aug 4, 2013) and there was no software update requirement in the document.I agree that most of the "updates" I've had to endure in the last few years have been "downgrades" (v10 is caca). However, Tesla does state in their warranty that NOT applying updates can void it. I think they added in this language years after the classics were released.
https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/downloads/tesla-new-vehicle-limited-warranty-en-us.pdf
Page 9
Voided Warranty
.... You may void this New Vehicle Warranty if you do not follow the specific instructions and recommendations regarding the use and operation of the vehicle provided in your owner documentation, including, but not limited to:
- Installing the vehicle's software updates after the notification that there is an update available;
By law, the warranty that applies to your vehicle is the warranty that was available at the time of purchase. Neither Tesla nor their agents can change the terms of that warranty after the purchase. I have a paper copy of the warranty at the TOP of my model S (Aug 4, 2013) and there was no software update requirement in the document.
You are correct. They just can’t add warranty limitations or exclusions after the fact.Not totally true. Tesla has changed the terms of the original warranty retroactively. In 2014 they increased the warranty on the Model S drive units to match that of the battery. So they can change the warranty, but only in favor of the other party.