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Tesla.com - "Transitioning to Tesla Vision"

Mardak

Member
Oct 13, 2018
767
1,567
USA
I'm not sure if people would consider this phantom braking, but here's Tesla Vision FSD Beta 9 suddenly slowing down from 55mph to 45mph (large green regen bar) without a clear visualization of why. Old FSD Betas with dot boxes provided a little bit more insights into everything Autopilot was seeing even if they were low confidence predictions, but now it's harder to figure out from the display why it decided to hit the brakes.

phantom braking.jpg
 

JHCCAZ

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Feb 2, 2021
341
568
Tucson
I'm not sure if people would consider this phantom braking, but here's Tesla Vision FSD Beta 9 suddenly slowing down from 55mph to 45mph (large green regen bar) without a clear visualization of why. Old FSD Betas with dot boxes provided a little bit more insights into everything Autopilot was seeing even if they were low confidence predictions, but now it's harder to figure out from the display why it decided to hit the brakes.

View attachment 683899
Were you the driver? Sorry but I can't tell from the jpeg what is the official speed limit here.

My initial comment is that I'd be surprised if the speed limit is 55 or even 50 through this intersection, but maybe so. If not, I would just say that maybe the FSD tries to moderate speed through intersections. On the other hand, it shouldn't make that adjustment too abruptly.
 

Mardak

Member
Oct 13, 2018
767
1,567
USA

elguapo

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Apr 24, 2013
1,173
2,512
Maryland
As someone who bought FSD and ended up with no radar for $10,000, it does suck that I could’ve paid $199/month for a subscription when I need it. I believe it will be a long time before city FSD is out. Oh well, not the first time I’ve lost money by being an early adopter.
 

Lounanne

Member
Aug 25, 2020
161
138
Las Vegas
Perhaps this has been covered but will the distance indicator be removed with Tesla vision? Without radar, how will the vehicle know distance to an object when parking?

Too bad Tesla does not have cross traffic in its vision
 

jeremymc7

Active Member
Feb 3, 2013
1,532
694
U.S.
Still no firm timetable when FSD Beta Button will widen to public release; or when Vision available at all for radar cars.

Seems like it’s going to be at least the rest of the year before things get sorted out an aligned between features and cars.
 

BogStandard

Member
Jun 2, 2021
34
43
MN
Yeah, I'm getting real tired of all the unintentional braking. I've used the bug report feature at least 100 times since I last posted here.
It brakes/slows down 90% of the time I'm cresting a hill and someone is travelling in the opposite lane towards me. I now just pre-emptively hold the accelerator on those situations. Also happens frequently going around a sharp curve and looks like opposing traffic is "coming at me" (left curve) or I'm about to run into them (right curve).
I love everything else about this car so much, but this unintended/phantom braking is really bringing down the experience big time, and when it happens frequently I really start resenting the car.
 
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stopcrazypp

Well-Known Member
Dec 8, 2007
10,813
5,733
Yeah, I'm getting real tired of all the unintentional braking. I've used the bug report feature at least 100 times since I last posted here.
It brakes/slows down 90% of the time I'm cresting a hill and someone is travelling in the opposite lane towards me. I now just pre-emptively hold the accelerator on those situations. Also happens frequently going around a sharp curve and looks like opposing traffic is "coming at me" (left curve) or I'm about to run into them (right curve).
I love everything else about this car so much, but this unintended/phantom braking is really bringing down the experience big time, and when it happens frequently I really start resenting the car.
I don't know about the hill part (there are disputes if this is a vision-only thing or if it occurs also for radar ones), but the slowing down for sharp curves is explicitly described in the manual as expected behavior.
p82:
Traffic-Aware Cruise Control also adjusts the cruising speed when entering and exiting curves.
...
WARNING: Due to limitations inherent in the onboard GPS (Global Positioning System), you may experience situations in which Traffic-Aware Cruise Control slows down the vehicle, especially near highway exits where a curve is detected and/or you are actively navigating to a destination and not following the route.
https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/model_3_owners_manual_north_america_en.pdf
 

Skotty

2014 S P85 | 2020 3 P19"
Jun 27, 2013
2,511
1,854
Kansas City, MO
Of interest are all the old arguments about how LIDAR was needed and RADAR wasn't good enough, and here goes Tesla in the opposite direction, no longer using either. I do think it is unfortunate not to have RADAR for low visibility conditions like fog or heavy rain, but suspect overall it should work well enough.
 

Cheburashka

Active Member
Jan 29, 2018
2,446
3,055
Los Gatos, CA
Yeah, I'm getting real tired of all the unintentional braking. I've used the bug report feature at least 100 times since I last posted here.
It brakes/slows down 90% of the time I'm cresting a hill and someone is travelling in the opposite lane towards me. I now just pre-emptively hold the accelerator on those situations. Also happens frequently going around a sharp curve and looks like opposing traffic is "coming at me" (left curve) or I'm about to run into them (right curve).
I love everything else about this car so much, but this unintended/phantom braking is really bringing down the experience big time, and when it happens frequently I really start resenting the car.

You do realize the "bug report" feature doesn't actually send anything to Tesla, right?
 

stopcrazypp

Well-Known Member
Dec 8, 2007
10,813
5,733
I wonder why tesla blames their own GPS for that last one?

sounds like they are NOT using the imu feature (and dead reckoning). that's not good. anyone know?
I believe the curves and offramp slowdowns are largely map based and that is of course GPS based. And the GPS may incorrectly place the car into the wrong lane (or even into a different road at a different elevation), as happens in plenty of cars. The map allows them to slow down the car as it approaches the curve and vision alone may not necessarily be able to do that as easily/ahead of time.

I'm not sure if the IMU would necessarily help given if the GPS is off a bit, the IMU doesn't ever have a reliable reference point to start with. I don't think they are referring to losing the GPS signal in that case (it's not talking about for example in tunnels or between tall buildings). The way to get high accuracy with GPS is using ground stations as reference points.

Actually I think vision may be able to help if it can determine which lane the car is in and feed it back to the navigation system to sync the location of the car. But right now I think the navigation system is pretty much acting independently and like the one humans use. It doesn't even have the option to set waypoints at the moment. I think the navigation software for Tesla is due for an upgrade, but I guess Tesla won't be focusing any attention on that until they get City Autosteer out.
 

jeremymc7

Active Member
Feb 3, 2013
1,532
694
U.S.
I have to say my FSD has big problems with interchanges with tight, or even hairpin turns. There I signs stating you never to go from 65/55 down to 35/25, but regardless of which one I'm on FSD never slows down. Map data bad? Not reading the signs? Either way it's always trying to kill me on these interchanges going full speed. :rolleyes:
 

stopcrazypp

Well-Known Member
Dec 8, 2007
10,813
5,733
I have to say my FSD has big problems with interchanges with tight, or even hairpin turns. There I signs stating you never to go from 65/55 down to 35/25, but regardless of which one I'm on FSD never slows down. Map data bad? Not reading the signs? Either way it's always trying to kill me on these interchanges going full speed. :rolleyes:
I don't think it the production software reads speed limit signs other than the standard black/white ones, nor does it read the conditional speed limits (at least it doesn't visualize them).
 

Paul8810

Member
Jun 19, 2013
196
132
YEG / PHX
I love everything else about this car so much, but this unintended/phantom braking is really bringing down the experience big time, and when it happens frequently I really start resenting the car.
This 100%.

Just returned from a 3000 km road trip across the prairies of Canada with my June 2021 build MYP no radar, car was comfortable, supercharging experience was top notch, but dammit that phantom braking was ridiculous. It even activated sometimes with no other objects around and flat highways. It required me to keep my foot over the accelerator at all times and prepare for sudden braking.

Sad to say, this was the first road trip in a Tesla where I dreaded the return trip.
 
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jeremymc7

Active Member
Feb 3, 2013
1,532
694
U.S.
... but dammit that phantom braking was ridiculous. It even activated sometimes with no other objects around and flat highways. It required me to keep my foot over the accelerator at all times and prepare for sudden braking.

I've had similar, and reproducible issues in some cases. In others it's impossible to tell what the car thinks it's seeing.

There's an area a few blocks from my house where they cut out a 5x5 square to access public works underground. They patched it and of course the color is different (different ages) as is the texture. The car must see it as a huge object or pothole and always PANIC stops the car and then just before it hits zero when it gets right in front of it goes "oh my back, never mind", then continues on it's way. Does this pretty much 100% of the time.

June 2020 Radar build.

Have to see what happens down the road (HA) with the software.
 

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