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Tesla.com - "Transitioning to Tesla Vision"
- Thread starter run-the-joules
- Start date
I am on .10 but had not gone through all the settings yet. Thanks for the update.
Personally, I don’t mind AHB being required (when possible) for TV at night. AHB has always worked well for me and it makes sense that it needs to “see” at night. As others have said, if it was pitch black with dense fog, I wouldn’t drive anyway, even with Lidar, radar, etc.
Me neither... but, lest we forget - we are entering the dawn of a new era of what's possible.
When I said it seemed crazy to _remove_ sensors, I wasn't necessarily just talking about the removal of radar. It just seems like the current focus is very much on "let's copy how humans drive", whereas I wish it was a bit more forward thinking and long-term than that. Humans drive pretty badly in unfamiliar situations, in the dark, in reduced visibility... but there's no reason why autonomous vehicles should be bound by human constraints.
I still think Tesla have a unique opportunity to set some meaningful standards and make some meaningful progress with V2I, why not use wide spectrum cameras w/ night vision etc... that way, you wouldn't need a map that tells you a traffic light is coming up: the traffic light itself would tell you. You wouldn't need auto-highbeam at night (which doesn't work very well in the UK due to the reflective style of roadsigns we have) because the cameras would see just fine on low-beam. Sensors in the road can take over when GPS fails to give extremely precise geolocation... it feels like there's so much low-hanging fruit, and Tesla have the resources and influence to make some of these things happen... - which has never been the case before with legacy manufacturers.
I don’t disagree at all. As an example, the ultrasonic sensors around the car are fine at low speeds, but they’re poor tech for higher speeds and generally just not great. The idea is for the car to drive better than humans, and with 8 “eyes”, it can, but let’s remember not even massive jets try to fly in dense fog and they’ve got zillions of sensors.
I do wonder what types of cameras Tesla uses and 100% believe they will be upgraded for higher res cameras at some point, as a starter.
Great example. As a human, I can easily see red arrow/green arrow lights from car and distinguish from regular traffic lights. Very easy. My Tesla CAN do it, but usually doesn’t and, when it does, seems to be unsure and keeps switching the display between an arrow and regular light. Why?
Tesla's not the only company doing vision only. Wayve is also doing it. Watch their videos with only 6 cameras as the car drives around the absolutely nutty city of London. Crazy the thing did so well with just cameras and AI. Done all on-the-fly like Tesla with no HD mapping, lidar/radar etc...
Go to the 1hr mark, they demo the car going through London various scenarios. Worse than San Fran.
Go to the 1hr mark, they demo the car going through London various scenarios. Worse than San Fran.
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Maybe the AHB is also for the driver's benefit, to maximize their vision and to reinforce that they are ultimately responsible for the vehicle?
I do agree that Tesla does have the opportunity to truly re-engineer the driving experience. For example, Teslas could one day share data with each other real-time. My Tesla doesn't have to anticipate what the Tesla in the right lane will do--it could actually know.
Great point.
That’s moderate rain. In heavy rain, you can barely see the end of your hood. We have that often here.
No. V2V was hyped and then all the talk about it died down because it's a huge hassle. Large security, privacy and computational problems for little gain.
Traffic problems are almost entirely due to bad and illegal driving and they're better solved with better driving assistance systems.
Interesting. I don't know anything about past autonomous driving ideas, just thinking out loud. Never heard of V2V. I wasn't thinking of one vehicle knowing another vehicles entire route--more just a case of knowing that the other car plans to change lanes at a speed of X, and adjusting accordingly. A seamless negotiation between the two Teslas. Maybe it can do that just as easily with signals and vision.
Anyways, interesting stuff. I'm happy to wait to see where we go from here--this not something where I want to be on the bleeding edge. Current Autopilot is awesome to me.
mikes_fsd
Banned
Great video about updates in 2021.4.18.10 for Tesla Vision cars
At 5:30 minute mark he talks about how it does a better job at detecting speed of other cars further away and making the lane change to faster lane earlier.
I look forward to this getting fully unlocked (90mph and follow distance, etc) and I would love to have it on my cars as well!
Oh and the school zone conditional speed limit is pretty awesome, would need to see more testing of it!
At 5:30 minute mark he talks about how it does a better job at detecting speed of other cars further away and making the lane change to faster lane earlier.
I look forward to this getting fully unlocked (90mph and follow distance, etc) and I would love to have it on my cars as well!
Oh and the school zone conditional speed limit is pretty awesome, would need to see more testing of it!
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Terminator857
Active Member
I noticed with the update the car monitors vehicle speeds in other lanes a lot better and has the “backward arrows” display in other lanes if they’re slowing in a meaningful way. Cool stuff. Thanks for the video.
mikes_fsd
Banned
Sorry
Sorry, I moved my post over to a discussion of scheduled charging since it really didn't seem to apply to the TV discussion. However, two of my pictures didn't get deleted. Would love your input if you want to check it out... Scheduled Charging?
Here's a screenshot of Tesla Vision seeing the 2nd car ahead even though the recording camera angle doesn't show any bit of the sedan ahead of the SUV:
I wonder if there's some persistence combined with the visible sedan's shadow resulting in Autopilot visualizing two in-path vehicles for a little bit. I do realize the Autopilot camera has a higher vantage point and maybe does have a very occluded view, but that could also mean Tesla Vision is able to classify and calculate position and velocity of barely visible vehicles.
This also made me realize the current radar+camera Autopilot functionality two-ahead behavior might have also required some visual confirmation as from what Karpathy presented at CVPR 2021, there doesn't really seem to be a radar-only behavior and the existing problems solved by Tesla Vision are from failed sensor fusion of radar and cameras. So if partial vision was necessary for the "radar bounce under" behavior, switching to Tesla Vision could surpass that with more training on videos to pick up on additional signals such as those shadows.
powertoold
Active Member
Cars not within the radar cone are still dancing around a lot, although not to the degree I see in my radar car.
I really really wish there was an option for a "dumb cruise" mode where it maintains speed no matter what like older dumb cars normally have. It could still keep lane assist on though.
The amount of phantom braking I've had on flat open roads is extremely disappointing and makes simple country road drives unpleasant. Jarring phantom braking every handful of miles is terrible and the antithesis to the smooth transport theme of this car. It really brought down the excitement of the car A LOT for me. I don't use TACC whenever someone is driving within a few car lengths behind me as I'm sure to piss them off with the constant "brake checks" or worst case an immediate hard slow down when they're not paying close enough attention.
It seems to happen most for me cresting any hill no matter how shallow or when there's oncoming cars on a two-way road. But it's also happened plenty on one-way roads. I can rarely predict when it may occur.
I've had instances where I'm driving on a wide open road with no one in front of me, no one behind me, and no one on-coming and it phantom brakes hard from 65 to ~40 within 2-3 seconds, Scared the crap outta me the first time it happened. In the 1800 miles I've driven the car now, I'd guestimate I've sent in a few dozen phantom brake bug reports. I'm just hoping all those reports actively help Tesla figure it out, I LOVE the car otherwise.
TLDR: PLEASE GIVE ME DUMB CRUISE!! At least until phantom braking with Vision is better sorted.
The amount of phantom braking I've had on flat open roads is extremely disappointing and makes simple country road drives unpleasant. Jarring phantom braking every handful of miles is terrible and the antithesis to the smooth transport theme of this car. It really brought down the excitement of the car A LOT for me. I don't use TACC whenever someone is driving within a few car lengths behind me as I'm sure to piss them off with the constant "brake checks" or worst case an immediate hard slow down when they're not paying close enough attention.
It seems to happen most for me cresting any hill no matter how shallow or when there's oncoming cars on a two-way road. But it's also happened plenty on one-way roads. I can rarely predict when it may occur.
I've had instances where I'm driving on a wide open road with no one in front of me, no one behind me, and no one on-coming and it phantom brakes hard from 65 to ~40 within 2-3 seconds, Scared the crap outta me the first time it happened. In the 1800 miles I've driven the car now, I'd guestimate I've sent in a few dozen phantom brake bug reports. I'm just hoping all those reports actively help Tesla figure it out, I LOVE the car otherwise.
TLDR: PLEASE GIVE ME DUMB CRUISE!! At least until phantom braking with Vision is better sorted.
Fake news. Drove 800+ GA to NJ 2 phantom brakes. Last year round trip of 1700 miles one phantom brake. So please give us a break.
LOL, yeah ok. I wish I was making it up. But sure, scream fake news if anyone criticizes Tesla. Also, I have a May 2021 model with no radar, so I'm sure yours didn't phantom brake very often. I have no reason to lie, I just want it to work better and sharing my experience. This isn't exactly a base model Chevy Cruise here... I should expect better.
powertoold
Active Member
Dumb cruise would be a bad idea. There will be people who accidentally or unknowingly use it thinking it'll stop as usual.
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