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Tesla Compact Hatch Coming?
- Thread starter T3SLAROD
- Start date
The Honda E tickles me in such a way I do wish it would come to the States.
Of course, I understand why it has not, but the styling is simple yet satisfying
I see three problems - cost, battery size and weight. Perhaps a smaller car could have a smaller motor, less pep (but still a decent amount). The model 3 is a very heavy car, but not that bad - IIRC about 100lb more than a BMW 3-series. A lot of that will be battery. heavy battery means bigger suspension, wheels, stiffer frame, etc. Everything bigger and heavier than a Honda or Hyundai compact.
I hope there's a trade-off with smaller battery to drive smaller motor meaning a somewhat lighter car. Maybe new tech will give us lighter batteries However, people have to remember - in Canada, when it gets down to -20 in city driving you may use 3x the normal range. I can't imagine less than 300km or 200mi being usable year round.
The other impediment I can think of is current battery production. As long as Tesla is still catching up with 3, Y, then Semi and Cybertruck, is there enough extra battery production for a small car too?
I hope there's a trade-off with smaller battery to drive smaller motor meaning a somewhat lighter car. Maybe new tech will give us lighter batteries However, people have to remember - in Canada, when it gets down to -20 in city driving you may use 3x the normal range. I can't imagine less than 300km or 200mi being usable year round.
The other impediment I can think of is current battery production. As long as Tesla is still catching up with 3, Y, then Semi and Cybertruck, is there enough extra battery production for a small car too?
Luckily, battery costs are coming down so that aerodynamics won't be as critical to get reasonable range.
Unfortunately, most econobox hatchback designs aren't very aerodynamic.
Contrary to a lot of the discussion here, weight isn't particularly crucial for EV efficiency. Certainly not compared with aerodynmics. The body style of current Teslas is close to the ultimate in aerodynamics. Any significant deviation will result in worse range per KWhr.
Unfortunately, most econobox hatchback designs aren't very aerodynamic.
Contrary to a lot of the discussion here, weight isn't particularly crucial for EV efficiency. Certainly not compared with aerodynmics. The body style of current Teslas is close to the ultimate in aerodynamics. Any significant deviation will result in worse range per KWhr.
Watts_Up
Well-Known Member
About the Tesla Compact Hatchback, I wonder how much import taxes would affect the US MSRP of any imported MIB or MIC cars?
Otherwise, to keep the price down and avoid shipping and import taxes, is there enough market for an US Tesla Compact Hatchback to add a new factory line in the US?
So far, VW plan only the build the ID.4 in Chattanooga,
A $25k Tesla would sell like hotcakes! I think some of us would have taken a MIC MY, if offered. The quality coming out of Shanghai seems so improved vs Fremont.
Tesla hasn't finished their factory expansions by a long shot.
Tesla hasn't finished their factory expansions by a long shot.
The issue with any import - so far - is charge port. Theoretically CCS1 and CCS2 use the same protocol, only the pin layout is different - so if they ever have a CCS adapter for North America, maybe there could be a similar adapter for Europe, since my car has the North American proprietary tesla port. It's one of my out-there fantasies to take my Tesla on a ro-ro to drive around Europe on an extended vacation.
But China apparently has a different charge port configuration again. So the imports won't really work unless Tesla cooperates to allow either charge port unit replacement or an adapter. I don't see a big third-party market for such adapters, except maybe for the ANZ market?
The problem with battery weight is that the whole car has to be made beefier to accommodate the battery size. The question would be - would Tesla produce a "sawed-off" Model 3 and keep much of the components the same, or completely redesign from the ground up for smaller lighter frame, suspension components, etc. I hauled a set of wheels home from the Calgary Tesla store, 1700km- those are heavy suckers all by themselves, and the hefty tires are due to the weight of the vehicle. It's a cascade effect. Weight may not be that big a deal, but it would make a difference in city stop-and-go driving... the heavier the car, the bigger the motor, the bigger the brakes, etc.
I would love for my second car to be a Tesla hatchback the size and configuration of my old 1990 Honda Civic.
But China apparently has a different charge port configuration again. So the imports won't really work unless Tesla cooperates to allow either charge port unit replacement or an adapter. I don't see a big third-party market for such adapters, except maybe for the ANZ market?
The problem with battery weight is that the whole car has to be made beefier to accommodate the battery size. The question would be - would Tesla produce a "sawed-off" Model 3 and keep much of the components the same, or completely redesign from the ground up for smaller lighter frame, suspension components, etc. I hauled a set of wheels home from the Calgary Tesla store, 1700km- those are heavy suckers all by themselves, and the hefty tires are due to the weight of the vehicle. It's a cascade effect. Weight may not be that big a deal, but it would make a difference in city stop-and-go driving... the heavier the car, the bigger the motor, the bigger the brakes, etc.
I would love for my second car to be a Tesla hatchback the size and configuration of my old 1990 Honda Civic.
Buckminster
Well-Known Member
I hear rumors of a cooperation between Tesla and Toyota. The offspring could well be the smaller, cheaper Tesla-like car, perhaps produced partly by Toyota with the electronics from Tesla.
Given Toyota's situation of being late to the BEV party, this could make sense.
So far only a rumor though. No firm data.
Given Toyota's situation of being late to the BEV party, this could make sense.
So far only a rumor though. No firm data.
Cape Coddess
2 Roths full - holding!
I'd be on that like white on rice! Would even pay to have it imported from wherever it's made.
This could be a sign error: The reality is true history. The future is less likely.
Toyota did cooperate with Tesla through providing the Fremont, CA factory for cheap, then investing enough money in Tesla to essentially cover the sale cost (Toyota probably benefitted by getting rid of the toxic industrial facility that would be hard to clean up for residential use). They also cooperated on the 2012 RAV4EV (Tesla provided the drivetrain, Toyota provided the body. This relationship has soured since.
Buckminster
Well-Known Member
Apologies for linking to an Electric article..
Tesla aims to release $25,000 electric car in 2023, likely will not have a steering wheel
Maybe no steering wheel and out in a year.
Tesla aims to release $25,000 electric car in 2023, likely will not have a steering wheel
Maybe no steering wheel and out in a year.
Artful Dodger
"Neko no me"
Model 2 will not use nickel batteries, it will use LFP (iron-phoshate) batteries, likely from CATL to begin. There is no shortage of iron, and CATL is ramping up LFP pack production rapidly. Tesla will buy all they can make, and order twice as many as they need. Any surplus will go into energy products like Powerwall.
But are these batteries completely proven? It's one thing to built a few thousand Roadsters and see whether the battery pack survives in real world conditions then ramp up to tens of thousands of S and X, and keep going with that same battery tech. It's another to produce a half million and then go "Oops! We need to replace randomly failed batteries..."
Maybe I don't share Elon's great vision, but I cannot see a car in less than 5 or 10 years being allowed on the road without some way for the supervising human to take over control and steer it like a normal car. Having worked with computers, I don't trust them that much.
LFP is quite durable and forgiving compared with other Li-ion formulae.
I first became aware of them when Phoenix Motor Cars (an EV startup) was looking into them from a company called AltairNano, in the mid-2010's, about the time Tesla was starting to coalesce from the ether. AltairNano's LFP (or LiFP) batteries took amazing amounts of current, allowing them to charge very fast with only ambient cooling due to the low internal resistance of the chemistry. They got some sort of DOE award for charging 100 miles of range in 10 minutes with a 250 kW (unheard of at the time) charger.
The downside, I'm aware of, with LFP is that it's specific energy (Wh/kg) is low compared with the other Li-ion chemistries. It's power density (W/kg), however, is great due to the low internal resistance and, of course, its raw materials are as cheap as rust - literally.
Artful Dodger
"Neko no me"
CATL is the world's largest battery manufacturer. LFP is longer lived, more stable, safer, less expensive per KWh, and easier to scale to TWh/yr production. Not sure what you're looking for.
Agreed. You clearly do not share Elon's great vision.
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