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Tesla Crash in Indy

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I think it's due, in part, to Musk's claims that Teslas are the safest cars on the road and that the AP features save lives, etc. That puts the focus on every accident where there's a fatality. If Musk would stop making the claims, there wouldn't be much of a story when he's shown to be engaging in puffery.
Puffery? Hyperbole much? The safest of designs in anything cannot be made to defy the laws of physics and be made idiot-proof. No vehicle can be made to survive every conceivable accident, otherwise we would be driving in tanks. And then someone would still find of way to get in an accident and kill themselves...
 
Puffery? Hyperbole much? The safest of designs in anything cannot be made to defy the laws of physics and be made idiot-proof. No vehicle can be made to survive every conceivable accident, otherwise we would be driving in tanks. And then someone would still find of way to get in an accident and kill themselves...

It's Musk's hyperbole that causes the media attention. If you don't want the media to focus on fatalities with your product, don't go around boasting that there's never been a fatality with your product (which Musk did quite a bit before the first fatality) or make absurd claims about your car being the safest car on the road, or that your car is going to be two times safer than others. All of those things beg media scrutiny.
 
It's Musk's hyperbole that causes the media attention. If you don't want the media to focus on fatalities with your product, don't go around boasting that there's never been a fatality with your product (which Musk did quite a bit before the first fatality) or make absurd claims about your car being the safest car on the road, or that your car is going to be two times safer than others. All of those things beg media scrutiny.

Nonsense.
The claim that the S is the safest car on the road is not puffery or hyperbole, it is taken directly from calculations done by NHSTA.
Those claims are not absurd in any way, they are based on objective measurements.
 
If you want to blame anything for this crash you need to blame Physics .. A car going to way fast, hits a tree and a parking garage at that speed (debris field says it all ) = horrible outcome for passengers and car... It would not have mattered if they were driving a Tesla or a common Fossil Fuel car. Your still gonna have fire, carnage , and loss of life in that circumstance . Breaks my heart !
My heart goes out to all families involved ! My heart also goes out to Tesla who will have to go through that carnage to prove that their wonderful car was not to blame ! :(
 
It's Musk's hyperbole that causes the media attention. If you don't want the media to focus on fatalities with your product, don't go around boasting that there's never been a fatality with your product (which Musk did quite a bit before the first fatality) or make absurd claims about your car being the safest car on the road, or that your car is going to be two times safer than others. All of those things beg media scrutiny.
I see what you are saying and yes, Elon can be his own worst enemy when it comes to his hubris and statements, but I wouldn't go so far to call the safety claims absurd. The media just likes to spread FUD, knowingly or otherwise, and the general public doesn't know any better even though incidents like this would have had fatalities no matter what kind of car was involved.
 
I see what you are saying and yes, Elon can be his own worst enemy when it comes to his hubris and statements, but I wouldn't go so far to call the safety claims absurd. The media just likes to spread FUD, knowingly or otherwise, and the general public doesn't know any better even though incidents like this would have had fatalities no matter what kind of car was involved.
Musk could have made zero safety claims, and we'd still see articles like these with every Tesla crash.

Toyota didn't make any grandiose claims about safety. Presumably most here remember the Prius car crash hysteria that occurred until hybrids became commonplace.
 
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Nonsense.
The claim that the S is the safest car on the road is not puffery or hyperbole, it is taken directly from calculations done by NHSTA.
Those claims are not absurd in any way, they are based on objective measurements.

Really? The NHSTA measured the Tesla and stated that it is the SAFEST car on the road? Care to link to this statement? Having 5 star ratings doesn't make the Tesla the SAFEST car on the road, as other cars also have 5 star ratings.

As I recall, Tesla created its own rating system to claim that it was the safest car ever tested and the NHSTA slapped them down for playing fast and loose with the system. To wit:

"N.H.T.S.A.’s New Car Assessment Program rates vehicles on a scale from 1 (the lowest) to 5 (the highest) stars. So Tesla’s claim in a news release that the Model S received a 5.4-star rating seems strange. In response to a request for comment, the agency said in a statement that “N.H.T.S.A. does not rate vehicles beyond five stars and does not rank or order vehicles within the starred categories.”"

So yes, Musk engages in puffery and hyperbole to make claims about safety that are not true and distortions of actual test results and the media, rightfully, take him to task for it.

Teslas are certainly safe cars, but what Musk's hyperbole does nothing but encourage the media to focus on stories that disabuse him of his puffery.
 
Really? The NHSTA measured the Tesla and stated that it is the SAFEST car on the road? Care to link to this statement? Having 5 star ratings doesn't make the Tesla the SAFEST car on the road, as other cars also have 5 star ratings.

As I recall, Tesla created its own rating system to claim that it was the safest car ever tested and the NHSTA slapped them down for playing fast and loose with the system. ...

Ah, I see where your misunderstanding came from.
Yes, NHSTA publicly rates cars 1-5 stars in a variety of areas, as well as overall.
Internally, they have a ton of specific, quantifiable scores on various tests. This data they share with the manufacturers, but not the public.

However, there are a few data points that are public.
One such example is the rollover rating.
Among all of the vehicles that scored 5 stars in every category (about 2% as I recall), the Model S scored the lowest rollover chance (by a long shot) of any.

So yes, by NHSTA's own public test scores, the Model S is the safest car ever tested.
 
Ah, I see where your misunderstanding came from.
Yes, NHSTA publicly rates cars 1-5 stars in a variety of areas, as well as overall.
Internally, they have a ton of specific, quantifiable scores on various tests. This data they share with the manufacturers, but not the public.

However, there are a few data points that are public.
One such example is the rollover rating.
Among all of the vehicles that scored 5 stars in every category (about 2% as I recall), the Model S scored the lowest rollover chance (by a long shot) of any.

So yes, by NHSTA's own public test scores, the Model S is the safest car ever tested.

That's funny, because the NHTSA specifically stated that they don't rank or order vehicles within ratings. Furthermore, if this is true, the NHTSA hasn't even tested competitors like the BMW 7 series, Audi A8 or Mercedes S class cars.

Again, I ask you for a link to the NHTSA statement that Tesla is the safest car on the road and the NHTSA test that shows "...the Model S scored the lowest rollover chance (by a long shot")..."

And are you trying to argue that rollover scores are the sine qua non of safety???

It's the kind of exaggeration and misdirection that shows up in this thread that causes the media to disprove the false claims. If you want to make the claims, go ahead, but don't complain about factual coverage that corrects the record.
 
.....This data they share with the manufacturers, but not the public.....

Incorrect. These data (the word data is the plural version) are in fact available. They can be downloaded as PDF reports from this website:

NHTSA VSR | NHTSA vehicle Crash Test Database

The Tesla Model S tested was a 2013 model. You can get the detailed report on each collision test. The NHTSA tests lack an offset frontal collision test so their frontal crash testing is less applicable to this kind of accident. However we can look at the data from the NHTSA full frontal barrier crash test, and specifically the HIC (Head Injury Criteria). We find the Model S is excellent for the driver, but rather mediocre for the passenger. Still good enough to be rated 5 star but not a great number for that particular parameter.

If you want an excellent number for head injury probability for both driver and passenger compare the Model S to a Volvo XC90 T8. We find the HIC in the frontal crash numbers to be 129/362 (driver/passenger) for the Tesla. However, the Volvo is better for both (121/181) and significantly better for the passenger. The HIC number is a complex calculation derived from the X,Y,Z accelerometer time traces during the crash in the head of the crash test dummies.
 
If you want an excellent number for head injury probability for both driver and passenger compare the Model S to a Volvo XC90 T8. We find the HIC in the frontal crash numbers to be 129/362 (driver/passenger) for the Tesla. However, the Volvo is better for both (121/181) and significantly better for the passenger. The HIC number is a complex calculation derived from the X,Y,Z accelerometer time traces during the crash in the head of the crash test dummies.

That has more to do with SUV/CUV vs low riding sedan than anything Volvo has managed to accomplish for safety.
 
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Why is it "Tesla Crash" and not just "Car Crash"?.

You know the answer to this question. It's not about being journalisticly responsible, it's about revenue. "TESLA" is a click bait word that draws more page views = more advertising revenue. Let's face it, the vast majority of journalism today operates with the principals of the National Enquirer or Weekly World News.
 
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It's no longer about being journalisticly responsible, it's about revenue.
When was professional journalism not about revenue? If you're not doing it for money, it's not a profession.

... taken on the morays of the National Enquirer
When did the Nat. Enq. start keeping eels, and why would anyone want their eels -- unless they had the mores of a thief?
 
Noticed a suspension related part has disconnected itself from the vehicle.

REPORTED TO NHTSA!


On a more serious note (yes, the above is a joke) unfortunately looks like speed played a huge factor here, speed kills, simple as that.
 
That has more to do with SUV/CUV vs low riding sedan than anything Volvo has managed to accomplish for safety.

I don't think so. The fixed barrier frontal crash test is the alleged equivalent of a vehicle of equal height and weight and speed hitting you head on. I would say the most critical element of a frontal crash test, be it offset or full, is the dimensions/material you have available to absorb energy and keep the accelerations of the passenger space as "soft" as possible.
 
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I don't think so. The fixed barrier frontal crash test is the alleged equivalent of a vehicle of equal height and weight and speed hitting you head on. I would say the most critical element of a frontal crash test, be it offset or full, is the dimensions/material you have available to absorb energy and keep the accelerations of the passenger space as "soft" as possible.

You're welcome to think whatever you want. If you think the Volvo has the ability to absorb more energy than a vehicle with a huge empty space in front of it, who am I to disagree...