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Tesla cripple model S stranding family

Has Tesla gone too far?


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Jpballer88

Member
Apr 2, 2018
53
125
Los Angeles
I have had a similar issue to this. I purchased a 2014 MS 60 that had a rebuilt/salvage title because that's the only route I could afford. It was recertified by Tesla and updates/supercharging were enabled. It showed as having the full warranty and the SC even put a brand new DU in it under warranty LOL. They fixed tons of stuff under warranty that should have not been.

As a first time Tesla owner, I thought, based off this experience, that once a Tesla has been recertified -- warranty reinstates.

So I sold my MS 60 and bought a 2013 P85, also a rebuilt/salvage title. The owner called into Tesla and they confirmed on 2 occasions it had warranty and that everything was good to go. The SC even did mobile 12V battery service to the salvage title Tesla a week before I bought it. They clearly worked on the car, even though it had a REBUILT title. So any argument that they do it for the safety of their employees is BS. If they cared that much about being safe, they should have worked on this P85......

So I bought the P85, which I thought had warranty, BECAUSE TESLA TOLD ME 3 TIMES IT WAS COVERED! I get home and over a month notice a wheel bearing noise. I call SC and try to schedule an appt for service. They say the car is blacklisted and that they will not touch it. I called executive escalation folks and explained them how bad Tesla is misinforming their customers and the level of disorganization with REBUILT/SALVAGE title Tesla's. He agrees with what happened was a big mistake but can not do anything about it.

As of now, SUPERCHARGING and UPDATES still work. I am scared to take it far because I DONT KNOW if Tesla will shut off SUPERCHARING halfway through my trip.

It is so disappointing and I know as more and more M3's get into accidents and people figure out how bad Tesla's support on rebuilt/salvage title vehicles is, there will be an uproar. Thanks to Rich Rebuilds, for using his platform to show Tesla what they are doing is not right.
 

Jpballer88

Member
Apr 2, 2018
53
125
Los Angeles
The problem is that Tesla is telling customers that WARRANTY is active on salvage cars because they do not have any sort of organization when it comes to salvaged Tesla's.

I can call Tesla right now and they will confirm I have warranty even though mines salvaged. Does that not say something? Misinformation? Legal action? Hmm.
 

Az_Rael

Supporting Member
Jan 26, 2016
5,605
8,766
Palmdale, CA
So, supercharging or warranty is one thing. How does this "non-support" play out with recalls and stuff on salvage cars? I think there are some laws out there regarding that stuff.
 

dhanson865

Active Member
Feb 16, 2013
4,387
5,928
Knoxville, Tennessee
If you buy a salvage vehicle and don't know it, you have much bigger issues than worrying about supercharging.

That'll just be one small thing to be concerned about.

If you buy a non Tesla that is salvage you have these risks

* It may be unsafe (frame damage or other systems not up to spec)
* It may be unreliable (damaged parts)
* It may have reduced resale value

But if the buyer doesn't want to sell it and it was fixed properly none of those theoretical risks affect the buyer.

Change the nameplate to Tesla and still have no unfixed technical or physical issues of any kind and Tesla adds

* Supercharging may be disabled at a later date without warning.
* Telematics software (the Tesla app) is disabled when supercharging is disabled. If you don't have it yet, you can't even pair it to your car. You can't turn on AC or heat, you can't see charging status, you can't see SOC% or miles remaining. You can't lock or unlock doors. You can't set a charge limit remotely. You can't locate your car or set valet mode remotely. Your cell phone access to the car is removed entirely. That includes calendar sync and any feature in the car that benefits from knowing your schedule.
* Warranty is void for issues that aren't even caused by the accident but would be covered by other manufacturers
* Service Centers and Corporate will treat you like a 3rd world citizen beneath contempt.

You can use the leaf app no matter what the state of the title is, if the car is sitting on blocks but has 12v power you can query and control the cars charging and climate control so long as there is 3G coverage in the area.

Would I be concerned about a salvage title, sure. I could be very very concerned depending on the condition of the car and the price I'd have to pay. But I don't think it's right for Tesla to treat used cars like they are disposable items. If they can be repaired at a reasonable price and are safe to use they shouldn't be disabling every possible feature they can. I'd rather see these cars on the road than to have someone driving a gas car instead.

At some point in the future Model S, 3, and X will all have the Tesla app on the phone as the key to the car. At the very least a salvage title shouldn't disable the phone app and force you back to using the valet keycard. If the car is safe to power on locally the tesla app should still be able to show the owner SOC% or Miles remaining, should be able to control climate.

There needs to be a higher standard than Title status to disable features on the car permanently under a possible 5 figure penalty box. If you can prove the car is road worthy according to your state at least some of this should be appealable with documentation provided and a smaller fee than the full certification.

There needs to be warranty support for anything not obviously damaged outside normal use without having to hire a magnuson moss attorney. The car should be listed with a cause for the original salvage status and anything not documented to be damaged should be assumed to still be under warranty.
 
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75Shappyt

Member
Jan 18, 2018
542
365
Kansas City, Mo.
he bought a car at auction, you buy as is, the insurance co. didn't want it, my car was totaled not sure were it went after I dove it till i was paid, must have gone to auction, was it safe to drive, not sure, wasn't worth fixing. I would never stand behind a car bought at auction.
 
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edlin303

Member
Jan 29, 2018
103
110
San Diego
* Supercharging may be disabled at a later date without warning.
* Telematics software (the Tesla app) is disabled when supercharging is disabled. If you don't have it yet, you can't even pair it to your car. You can't turn on AC or heat, you can't see charging status, you can't see SOC% or miles remaining. You can't lock or unlock doors. You can't set a charge limit remotely. You can't locate your car or set valet mode remotely. Your cell phone access to the car is removed entirely. That includes calendar sync and any feature in the car that benefits from knowing your schedule.
* Warranty is void for issues that aren't even caused by the accident but would be covered by other manufacturers
* Service Centers and Corporate will treat you like a 3rd world citizen beneath contempt.
No idea what #3 is talking about, but 1, 2, and 4 are all part of having any service vs something you buy. If you stop paying or get blacklisted by Netflix, you can’t keep logging in to the app to see your history. Or if you stop paying for online backups, they delete your backups. The sc was tied to the life of the car I believe, and if it’s salvaged that implies it died.
 

dhanson865

Active Member
Feb 16, 2013
4,387
5,928
Knoxville, Tennessee
all part of having any service vs something you buy. If you stop paying or get blacklisted by Netflix, you can’t keep logging in to the app to see your history. Or if you stop paying for online backups, they delete your backups.

If you stop paying netflix you can pay amazon prime, hulu, or any of a thousand other sources for content. No this would be like Samsung or TCL or Roku saying you can't use netflix because you bought a used or refurbished TV they don't want to support anymore event though it is a working smart TV that can log into netflix just fine. Like they send the firmware update to your internet connected TV and tell you to pay them to have the refurbished TV certified before you can use the built in apps on the TV (and are designed to play nice with the custom remote the TV provided).

Nissan never stopped app support for out of warranty, used, or salvaged cars. All it is knowing the ID of the car and letting the traffic flow to the cell network. The car, the owner, and the cell network do the heavy lifting, Tesla has no great cost for the small percentage of cars that want to use the app but aren't currently on the blessed list. Just keep the database up and have the server provide the routing. I'm assuming the 3G data connection for the car is a bulk deal that doesn't save them anything at all or at worst doesn't save them anything significant for cutting one car at a time off the throttled 3G service they use. If it were super expensive Nissan would have cut us off long ago.
 
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edlin303

Member
Jan 29, 2018
103
110
San Diego
If you stop paying netflix you can pay amazon prime, hulu, or any of a thousand other sources for content. No this would be like Samsung or TCL or Roku saying you can't use netflix because you bought a used or refurbished TV they don't want to support anymore event though it is a working smart TV that can log into netflix just fine. Like they send the firmware update to your internet connected TV and tell you to pay them to have the refurbished TV certified before you can use the built in apps on the TV (and are designed to play nice with the custom remote the TV provided).

Nissan never stopped app support for out of warranty, used, or salvaged cars. All it is knowing the ID of the car and letting the traffic flow to the cell network. The car, the owner, and the cell network do the heavy lifting, Tesla has no great cost for the small percentage of cars that want to use the app but aren't currently on the blessed list. Just keep the database up and have the server provide the routing. I'm assuming the 3G data connection for the car is a bulk deal that doesn't save them anything at all or at worst doesn't save them anything significant for cutting one car at a time off the throttled 3G service they use.

If it wasn’t clear, I wasn’t necessarily saying I agree it’s a good business decision. I’m just sure they have legal grounds to kick people from superchargers just like Netflix can ban you as a customer if they want. Same goes for the free lte in the car, the app functionality that is hosted on their servers, and service in their service centers. All of those are delivered as services that they can easily refuse to provide if they build in terms that give them legal standing to. It may not be good for pr, but it’s definitly not as unusual as you let on.

Also, there are absolutely instances of forced upgrades removing capabilities in technology devices. Look at amazon fire tablets. They force upgrades that remove capabilities with no notice. It sucks, but they absolutely do it.
 

Xminus6

Member
Sep 3, 2015
697
471
Bay Area, CA
@VikH cut off your leg, you can still hop about.. still would use term "disabled"
they crippled one of the primary features of the car with terrible timing. so the title is valid
The loss of supercharging caused a delay so severe they had no choice but to find another vehicle and have that one towed 100 miles to a friends house.

No one is suggesting Tesla did anything maliciously, merely that they failed to communicate this to the owner.
I just don't buy that it was that severe. They left the car at a friends house and paid to TOW it back to their own house 100 miles away? Why not just plug it into a 110 outlet for the duration of your vacation. Pretty sure you could have gotten 100 miles of charge in a couple days.
 
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Ofarlig

Member
Mar 4, 2018
258
231
Sweden
I am more surprised you can legally drive cars that have been written off. I know your inspection of cars on the road is bad and many dangerous cars are road legal but alowing scrap cars back on the road is taking it a bit far.

Either way, if you buy a write off you can’t complain if the car company won’t give you warraty or risk bad PR by electrocuting you by letting you use superchargers.

100 miles would in no way require a tow either.
 

harry

Member
Jul 17, 2012
322
220
Prince Edward Island & Wisconsin
Putting aside the terrible (and sadly, normal) communication from Tesla employees, I don't understand the car having to be towed. I have friends who drove clear across Canada before there were superchargers anywhere up here. I have driven from PEI to Toronto multiple times on Level 2 chargers. Plugshare shows about 40,000 stations of various amperages in the U.S. and Canada, ranging from 25A -90A Sun Country Highway stations to 50Kw CHAdeMOs. It's just not believable that the OP could find none of those.
 

cmaster

Member
Dec 4, 2014
240
76
United States
Owner should do due diligence? Never had to when I buy a used or salvage ICE car. Heck, I can just return my salvaged Honda Civic and the dealer would just service it normally.

Oh. I can also buy a salvaged Mercedez AMG c63 and the dealer would still service it like they do with regular cars. What gives, tesla?
 

ItsNotAboutTheMoney

Well-Known Member
Jul 12, 2012
10,300
7,395
Maine
Owner should do due diligence? Never had to when I buy a used or salvage ICE car. Heck, I can just return my salvaged Honda Civic and the dealer would just service it normally.

Oh. I can also buy a salvaged Mercedez AMG c63 and the dealer would still service it like they do with regular cars. What gives, tesla?

Dealers can do as they wish.

But if it's salvage the manufacturer warranty is dead and the manufacturer can choose not to provide any support.

Tesla has an inspection process for rebuilt vehicles to say whether they will _support_ the vehicle. _Support_ means that they will service/repair it, but it does not reinstate the warranty.
 
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NewTMSMan

Active Member
Aug 21, 2017
1,089
1,391
USA
Seems pretty simple to me; car was bought as a salvage vehicle. Anyone buying a car at auction that requires repairs knows this, as did the buyer in this case.

Tesla does not track what exactly happens to the cars, how would they know if the car is repaired or totaled by the insurance company? Once it comes to their attention, through bringing it in for service, and it is checked they alerted the owner the car was not supported and turned off supercharging. If they leave supercharging on once they are aware of the salvage title and have not inspected the car they now have liability for anything that happens at their superchargers with this car, they have to disable it once officially aware of the status of the car, no other real option due to liability reasons. Nice of the SC not to charge for non-warranty repair work in this case, but appropriate I think.

No where does anyone say it will cost $10k to get the car certified, all the person says is the SC person heard of a person where it cost $10k. I am imagining this is due to required repairs needed to recertify and not just the cost to recertify. If I were the owner I would try to get this process done as it would definitely increase the value of the car by the cost of this process.

I also agree with an earlier poster, you can use PlugShare like other electric vehicles making long distance trips. The chargers would be slower but this is certainly possible, Bolt drivers do it all the time.
 

ItsNotAboutTheMoney

Well-Known Member
Jul 12, 2012
10,300
7,395
Maine
Most dealers will service the Mercedes Amy c63s. And, I betcha with Tesla, everyone in service is working only for one dealer. So you are screwed.

There are independents companies that service Teslas. But being low volume it depends on where you live.
Same as the hybrid trap.
 

cmaster

Member
Dec 4, 2014
240
76
United States
In an older video from Rich Rebuild, he went to explain that one other person who salvaged a Tesla was charged 6,000$ to have it certified again.

Rich is a trustworthy source for info. He doesn't hide his real experiences working with salvaged Teslas. While he expressed his love for Teslas, he also know what the darkside is with them as well.

No where does anyone say it will cost $10k to get the car certified, all the person says is the SC person heard of a person where it cost $10k. I am imagining this is due to required repairs needed to recertify and not just the cost to recertify. If I were the owner I would try to get this process done as it would definitely increase the value of the car by the cost of this process.
 

mspohr

Well-Known Member
Jul 27, 2014
9,121
10,607
California
Owner should do due diligence? Never had to when I buy a used or salvage ICE car. Heck, I can just return my salvaged Honda Civic and the dealer would just service it normally.

Oh. I can also buy a salvaged Mercedez AMG c63 and the dealer would still service it like they do with regular cars. What gives, tesla?
Tesla did service the car (for free).
Tesla will service the car in the future (not free).
 
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crunchtime2k

Member
Apr 2, 2018
83
68
Indiana
Based on my delivery experience and the pages of repairs being performed to a “new” car less than a month into ownership (currently at the sc for a week now), lack of support for people that DIY and this mess will for sure make this my first and only Tesla purchase.

Tesla needs to change bigtime as there is such a complete mess. Countless people waiting months for collision repair parts, terrible QC , bullshit “within spec” claims. They need to understand the car belongs to the owner , not Tesla.

If they don’t want to work on it that’s fine . But sell people parts like any other mfg , this blacklisting is bullshit.

FYI I don’t care what you fanboys have to say.
 

mspohr

Well-Known Member
Jul 27, 2014
9,121
10,607
California
In an older video from Rich Rebuild, he went to explain that one other person who salvaged a Tesla was charged 6,000$ to have it certified again.

Rich is a trustworthy source for info. He doesn't hide his real experiences working with salvaged Teslas. While he expressed his love for Teslas, he also know what the darkside is with them as well.
This leads me to believe that we are not getting the full story. I doubt the car was declared salvage for just a door and fender. Probably more serious problems.
 
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