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Tesla CTO on Energy Storage: ‘We Should All Be Thinking Bigger’

Discussion in 'Tesla Motors' started by tigerade, May 23, 2014.

  1. tigerade

    tigerade Member

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    I don't see where this has been posted. This is too good of an article to not post:

    Tesla CTO on Energy Storage: : Greentech Media

    Some interesting tidbits:

    I like that "peaky" is being used as an adjective. :D
     
  2. Merrill

    Merrill Active Member

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    Breaking ground where?
     
  3. tigerade

    tigerade Member

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    It looks like that is still a secret.
     
  4. LakeForest

    LakeForest Member

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    They have a picture of the install at the factory in the article..very cool, though not the "flat" design Elon was talking about on the latest conference call.
     
  5. MikeC

    MikeC Active Member

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    Excellent article. I really hope JB is the next CEO. Did not know that Tejon had batteries.
     
  6. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney Active Member

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    I man♡ JB. Always good to read JB quotes.
     
  7. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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    Wow. 4 megawatt-hour pack. That would eliminate any range anxiety:)

    Since there isn't any solar I think at the factory do they just charge it up at off peak rates and use it as needed to avoid peak charges?
     
  8. TSLAMTRS

    TSLAMTRS Member

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    Justin Bieber?! just kidding


    JB seems like the man for the job though.
     
  9. DaveT

    DaveT Searcher of green pastures

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    The commercial energy storage units are particularly interesting IMO. Tesla already has deployed 5 of them (400kWh each) and will add 5 more in the next 3-4 months. If these units save money for Tesla (reducing peak energy load) compared to the cost of the units, then this will have a market and it's something that most people aren't expecting for another several years.

    straubel1.jpg
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    - - - Updated - - -

    Thanks for posting the article link. I just talked/emailed the conference organizers and they say the video of JB Straubel's talk should be up on YouTube next week on their channel:
    https://www.youtube.com/user/JointVentureSV/videos
     
  10. FredTMC

    FredTMC Model S VIN #4925

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    Looking forward to watching that video. Thanks Dave for doing the legwork
     
  11. equinox1981

    equinox1981 Member

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    JB's talk is up!

    https://www.youtube.com/user/JointVentureSV/videos

    Great talk as usual from JB - learned a lot. Keep in mind it's geared towards a grid-storage crowd.

    Wonder if Tesla will spin off "Tesla Energy Storage Inc." at some point... obviously that's a very capital intense business so splitting with Tesla (and its access to capital) wouldn't make sense for the moment, but grid storage will be such a huge market it could be a big distraction from cars...
     
  12. eepic

    eepic Member

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    I think in the in the next decade or two it will remain two integrated business units, energy storage and automotive. It would be funny if they pull an Apple Computer -> Apple and someday rename to Tesla Inc. then far down the road after that when Elon/JB are gone the energy storage becomes dominant and they spin off its automotive unit as Tesla Motors Inc. again.
     
  13. clmason

    clmason Member

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    My basic understanding of of the numbers tells me that the commercial energy storage 400kWh unit should have about 30,000 cells inside. That's really a huge number of cells...

    I'm wondering if gigiafactory will produce a larger battery format. In everyday layman's terms, if the model s using a AA format, do you think it would make sense to increase size to something a bit larger in diameter like a C format battery. Wouldn't that cut in half the number of individual cells needed for the cars and commercial while also maintaining their bundling and segmentation that allows for temperature control and the other fancy stuff...

    I'm out of my league here on the battery conversation (and I'm sure this topic has been beaten to death) but JB says we are not thinking "big" enough... And I don't see the logic in building more of the old format when it was originally selected in part due to economy of scale/low cost due to global demand and supply. Since they are going to have economy of scale on any format they choose, it feels like they will step up with GF to a larger size without compromising all their IP.
     
  14. equinox1981

    equinox1981 Member

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    Everyone is so fixated on size! :)

    Did you watch the entire video? In it he specifically addresses the cell size issue - it's not a performance driver in any way - so no need to get hung up about it. Same with the worries over lithium supplies, which also seems to cause us lay-people to become worry-worts.

    That's what I love about Tesla (or any of EMs companies actually) ... what you usually hear from them is the actual, well-researched, truth of the situation.
     
  15. clmason

    clmason Member

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    I posted before I watched the whole video. I just saw that part and he also said he thought a slightly larger size is optimal.
     
  16. DaveT

    DaveT Searcher of green pastures

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    #16 DaveT, May 26, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 13, 2016
    JB Straubel's keynote at 2014 Energy Storage Symposium

    There's already a discussion thread on this, but I thought I'd post a link in the Videos section because this is a great video by JB Straubel on Tesla's approach to energy storage. A must-see for investors and those looking to understand Tesla better.

     
  17. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    I'm sure that was with good intentions, but cross posting is against the forum rules. Please do not make work for the moderators.
     
  18. DaveT

    DaveT Searcher of green pastures

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    I figured that a link in the Videos section would be helpful as there are people who look for Tesla-related videos in that section to view and would not have know about the video otherwise. But I'm not a mod and I'm more than willing to go with whatever rules are set up. Sorry for any inconvenience.
     
  19. SCW-Greg

    SCW-Greg Active Member

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    My parents, getting the local trade rag in La Quinta, have read it will be near the Salton Sea. This surprised me.
    Gov of CA apparently not wanting to give up just yet.
     
  20. 3mp_kwh

    3mp_kwh Member

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    There's nice linearity to how grid storage can develop in places like HI, other islands, and third world markets where fuel oil is actually still predominantly used. The bogie is $.30-.40/kwh in them. Barclays noted a $.22/kwh rate as the amortized cost of batteries ($250/kwh, 14kwh over 10yrs) and panels (9kw, over 25yrs). I am assuming we knew they downgraded the American utility sector last week, to underweight? It had a lot to do with this very topic.

    Residential is where the traction comes from, IMO, as homeowners aren't saddled to transmission and all sorts of other O&M costs. "grid as back up" charges are the future. Flat utility charges, regardless of consumption, and other adversarial self-inflicted utility policies will hasten a drive for independent generation/consumption. Yes, I look at the grid a lot.

    2:1 rough auto / storage giga production is news to me. I thought the second-use pipeline was how this was going to go. I also wonder what the QC rate is on 18650s, and if some have ended up in the 2MWH they have going? Fascinating stuff.
     

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