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Tesla CTO on Energy Storage: ‘We Should All Be Thinking Bigger’
- Thread starter tigerade
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Merrill
Merrill
The commercial energy storage units are particularly interesting IMO. Tesla already has deployed 5 of them (400kWh each) and will add 5 more in the next 3-4 months. If these units save money for Tesla (reducing peak energy load) compared to the cost of the units, then this will have a market and it's something that most people aren't expecting for another several years.
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Thanks for posting the article link. I just talked/emailed the conference organizers and they say the video of JB Straubel's talk should be up on YouTube next week on their channel:
https://www.youtube.com/user/JointVentureSV/videos
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Thanks for posting the article link. I just talked/emailed the conference organizers and they say the video of JB Straubel's talk should be up on YouTube next week on their channel:
https://www.youtube.com/user/JointVentureSV/videos
FredTMC
Model S VIN #4925
JB's talk is up!
https://www.youtube.com/user/JointVentureSV/videos
Great talk as usual from JB - learned a lot. Keep in mind it's geared towards a grid-storage crowd.
Wonder if Tesla will spin off "Tesla Energy Storage Inc." at some point... obviously that's a very capital intense business so splitting with Tesla (and its access to capital) wouldn't make sense for the moment, but grid storage will be such a huge market it could be a big distraction from cars...
I think in the in the next decade or two it will remain two integrated business units, energy storage and automotive. It would be funny if they pull an Apple Computer -> Apple and someday rename to Tesla Inc. then far down the road after that when Elon/JB are gone the energy storage becomes dominant and they spin off its automotive unit as Tesla Motors Inc. again.
My basic understanding of of the numbers tells me that the commercial energy storage 400kWh unit should have about 30,000 cells inside. That's really a huge number of cells...
I'm wondering if gigiafactory will produce a larger battery format. In everyday layman's terms, if the model s using a AA format, do you think it would make sense to increase size to something a bit larger in diameter like a C format battery. Wouldn't that cut in half the number of individual cells needed for the cars and commercial while also maintaining their bundling and segmentation that allows for temperature control and the other fancy stuff...
I'm out of my league here on the battery conversation (and I'm sure this topic has been beaten to death) but JB says we are not thinking "big" enough... And I don't see the logic in building more of the old format when it was originally selected in part due to economy of scale/low cost due to global demand and supply. Since they are going to have economy of scale on any format they choose, it feels like they will step up with GF to a larger size without compromising all their IP.
I'm wondering if gigiafactory will produce a larger battery format. In everyday layman's terms, if the model s using a AA format, do you think it would make sense to increase size to something a bit larger in diameter like a C format battery. Wouldn't that cut in half the number of individual cells needed for the cars and commercial while also maintaining their bundling and segmentation that allows for temperature control and the other fancy stuff...
I'm out of my league here on the battery conversation (and I'm sure this topic has been beaten to death) but JB says we are not thinking "big" enough... And I don't see the logic in building more of the old format when it was originally selected in part due to economy of scale/low cost due to global demand and supply. Since they are going to have economy of scale on any format they choose, it feels like they will step up with GF to a larger size without compromising all their IP.
Everyone is so fixated on size!
Did you watch the entire video? In it he specifically addresses the cell size issue - it's not a performance driver in any way - so no need to get hung up about it. Same with the worries over lithium supplies, which also seems to cause us lay-people to become worry-worts.
That's what I love about Tesla (or any of EMs companies actually) ... what you usually hear from them is the actual, well-researched, truth of the situation.
Everyone is so fixated on size!
Did you watch the entire video? In it he specifically addresses the cell size issue - it's not a performance driver in any way - so no need to get hung up about it. Same with the worries over lithium supplies, which also seems to cause us lay-people to become worry-worts.
That's what I love about Tesla (or any of EMs companies actually) ... what you usually hear from them is the actual, well-researched, truth of the situation.
I posted before I watched the whole video. I just saw that part and he also said he thought a slightly larger size is optimal.
JB Straubel's keynote at 2014 Energy Storage Symposium
There's already a discussion thread on this, but I thought I'd post a link in the Videos section because this is a great video by JB Straubel on Tesla's approach to energy storage. A must-see for investors and those looking to understand Tesla better.
There's already a discussion thread on this, but I thought I'd post a link in the Videos section because this is a great video by JB Straubel on Tesla's approach to energy storage. A must-see for investors and those looking to understand Tesla better.
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I'm sure that was with good intentions, but cross posting is against the forum rules. Please do not make work for the moderators.
I figured that a link in the Videos section would be helpful as there are people who look for Tesla-related videos in that section to view and would not have know about the video otherwise. But I'm not a mod and I'm more than willing to go with whatever rules are set up. Sorry for any inconvenience.
SCW-Greg
Active Member
My parents, getting the local trade rag in La Quinta, have read it will be near the Salton Sea. This surprised me.
Gov of CA apparently not wanting to give up just yet.
There's nice linearity to how grid storage can develop in places like HI, other islands, and third world markets where fuel oil is actually still predominantly used. The bogie is $.30-.40/kwh in them. Barclays noted a $.22/kwh rate as the amortized cost of batteries ($250/kwh, 14kwh over 10yrs) and panels (9kw, over 25yrs). I am assuming we knew they downgraded the American utility sector last week, to underweight? It had a lot to do with this very topic.
Residential is where the traction comes from, IMO, as homeowners aren't saddled to transmission and all sorts of other O&M costs. "grid as back up" charges are the future. Flat utility charges, regardless of consumption, and other adversarial self-inflicted utility policies will hasten a drive for independent generation/consumption. Yes, I look at the grid a lot.
2:1 rough auto / storage giga production is news to me. I thought the second-use pipeline was how this was going to go. I also wonder what the QC rate is on 18650s, and if some have ended up in the 2MWH they have going? Fascinating stuff.
Residential is where the traction comes from, IMO, as homeowners aren't saddled to transmission and all sorts of other O&M costs. "grid as back up" charges are the future. Flat utility charges, regardless of consumption, and other adversarial self-inflicted utility policies will hasten a drive for independent generation/consumption. Yes, I look at the grid a lot.
2:1 rough auto / storage giga production is news to me. I thought the second-use pipeline was how this was going to go. I also wonder what the QC rate is on 18650s, and if some have ended up in the 2MWH they have going? Fascinating stuff.
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