TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

Tesla cut 60kw & added 70D preparing for Model 3 layout?

Discussion in 'Future Cars' started by S2X, Apr 10, 2015.

  1. S2X

    S2X Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2014
    Messages:
    18
    Location:
    Socal
    Model 3 would be in the 200 miles range for around $35k.

    Why would they remove the 60kw Model S? I believe its 60kw does sell no?
     
  2. AnOutsider

    AnOutsider S532 # XS27

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2009
    Messages:
    11,923
    It's probably more in prep for the Model X than 3. 70 was probably needed to give the larger vehicle a decent range.
     
  3. YouShan

    YouShan New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2015
    Messages:
    3
    Location:
    Rosemead, CA
    They think they are prepping for Model X. I see something like:
    - Model S 70
    - Model S 85
    - Model X 85
    - Model X 95

    I have a feeling Model X will be bigger or we'll have a new tech battery by that time. :cool:
     
  4. AnxietyRanger

    AnxietyRanger Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2014
    Messages:
    2,234
    Location:
    EU
    It would make more sense to have a Model X 70 as well, for synergies (make only one entry-level pack). And as AnOutsider says, 70 vs 60. might give the larger vehicle decent base range.

    Now, the interesting part is, of course, what happens to "85". Will it go to 95 or 100 or whatever for similar reasons - in which case it probably would be upped on the Model S as well after a Model X launch.
     
  5. smac

    smac Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2013
    Messages:
    1,121
    Location:
    Nottinghamshire
    I can't seeing upping the 85 in the S.

    The 60-75 was an easy upgrade. Simply change the internal modules in the 60 pack for the identical ones in the 85. (If they weren't just software capped already)

    Increasing the 85 would require either more modules (and a different size/shape pack), or a different chemistry.

    My view is the change has come about due to changes to the ZEV rules. Tesla historically would have wanted some "range differentiation" between the two models, however the requirement for cars to hit 275 miles NEDC for eligibility to the top ZEV ratings has precipitated the introduction of the 70.

    The S only just squeaks this figure, unless they push the safety margins on the DoD of the 70 pack an X is going to struggle to hit 275 miles. The alternative is they just make the base X an 85 kW and a larger "two humped" pack with 18 modules giving a 95kW as the top option.
     
  6. AnxietyRanger

    AnxietyRanger Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2014
    Messages:
    2,234
    Location:
    EU
    Fair and interesting points there, smac. Duly noted.
     
  7. 30seconds

    30seconds Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2013
    Messages:
    1,136
    Location:
    SF
    But why have three pack sizes and not two? I bet that a larger 95pack on the model S would have plenty of demand and tesla is always upgrading the offerings. Remember that they still need to drive S demand after X introduction. The body is three years old, but no need for the tech to be anything but the best.
     
  8. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2013
    Messages:
    10,326
    Location:
    San Mateo, CA
    In the Q1 2015 conference call last week Elon stated that "the take rate" for the S60 was "low". Tesla wanted to offer a more compelling base model, so upgrading the 60 to a 70D makes it much more attractive for only a few thousand dollars more. Seems like a smart move.

    And I think it is likely that within a year, maybe even late this year, the 85 will be dropped and a 90 or 95 model will replace it so that there is a greater differentiation from the base model.
     
  9. smac

    smac Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2013
    Messages:
    1,121
    Location:
    Nottinghamshire
    Unless they change chemistry or use more of the cell discharge range, I don't see how they would package it into the current Model S. Maybe a face-lift model, which loses the boot "footwell" and puts stuff like the chargers in there to free up some space under the rear seats for a second hump ?

    With the X offering true 7 seats, losing the rear facing seat option in the S is probably less of an issue.
     
  10. 30seconds

    30seconds Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2013
    Messages:
    1,136
    Location:
    SF
    I'm assuming that pack size in the X and S would be the same and that the X will offer the higher size. Anyways 95 is only a 11% increase above 85 which has been set in place since 2011
     
  11. mwulff

    mwulff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2015
    Messages:
    348
    Location:
    Danmark
    At this point I'm pretty sure that tesla has access to newer versions of the 18650 cell and they are just waiting for the X launch to show them to the world. My guess is that they will go for 100 kWh pack because it would make great marketing.
     
  12. smac

    smac Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2013
    Messages:
    1,121
    Location:
    Nottinghamshire
    Agree 100kW usable would be a bit of a coup for Tesla/EV aficionados, and a hypothetical 18 module pack with marginally better chemistry and/or slightly less buffer would hit that magic number. As you say though there might be a better chemistry they are holding back which gives them the 18% boost using the same 16 module count.

    Either way, it will probably help up-selling too, 100 sounds so much better than 95 (like being priced at 9.99 not 10.00 as it crosses a psychological barrier ;) ).

    Though IMHO 400 mile range would be the next milestone for Joe Public and 100kWh won't quite cut that. So maybe a 110kWh pack :D
     

Share This Page