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Tesla DC charging network

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I would be willing to host a 90 KW charging slot and/or HPC at my office in San Luis Obispo. We have 1200 amp three phase 480 service. Perfect distance between Los angeles and San Francisco. At ~ $10 per charge in electrons for the model S, I would like to be compansated for my electricity bill. Where do I sign up??
 
With respect you seem to have backed away completely from your demand for 3-Phase support on the Model S. Am I wrong or have you accepted that Tesla will never support 3-Phase and we have to accept the proprietary DC Charging system?
my fist goal is the most quickest charge. the availability of 3-ph in europe is huge. DC charging of 90kW or more are rare to not available. 22kW 3-ph is great, 44kW even better, but what will the weight of an 125A 400V 3-ph onboard charger? the most light weight 22kW charger i know is the 22kW NG6 from brusa, liquid cooled with 12kg, for 88kW this would be at least 50kg. if i cannot get 3-ph but get 90kW DC charging for my long distance trips - good but not the best for me.
 
I would be willing to host a 90 KW charging slot and/or HPC at my office in San Luis Obispo. We have 1200 amp three phase 480 service. Perfect distance between Los angeles and San Francisco. At ~ $10 per charge in electrons for the model S, I would like to be compansated for my electricity bill. Where do I sign up??

Yes, perfect. Try Tesla. May be a bit early, but nevertheless. :smile:
 
Eberhard, could Tesla leave the inboard charger out of European cars and string together three of their 10 kW chargers for a portable slow DC charger to take advantage of European 3phase with minimal change in total cost and improved functionality?

If not for a mobile charger, then at least it should be possible for stationary chargers: phase-balanced versions could be 30 kW, 60 kW, and 90 kW. With a maximum imbalance of 10 kW, any 10 k increment should be possible: 20 kW, 30 kW, 40 kW, ..., 80 kW, 90 kW.

This would allow adjusting in cost and to available power.
 
ECOtality is two years into trying to build fast charging infrastructure with a federal grant that makes the equipment free and subsidizes the install costs. Even with that, they still have not planted a single station yet.
I think a large part of this is that Blink's CHAdeMO charger only recently got UL approval. Or at least I hope!

http://www.ecotality.com/pressreleases/20111004_Blink_DC_Fast_Charger_UL_Certification.pdf

IMO, Blink's designs are way over the top. I can't imagine what they cost. They should be KISS!
 
If the Tesla Fast Charge Network actually comes to fruition, I would like to see either Tesla or another 3rd party come out with a J1772 adapter for the Volt and Leaf. That might prevent the the kind of BetaMax vs VHS format war and allow the superior format to actually win this time.
 
LEAF owners would probably prefer if they could get CHAdeMO for DC fast charge.
LEAF fast charge is 15x faster then their AC charge because they have a wimpy onboard AC charger.
But DC fast charging has a lot more handshake than just the simple control signals of AC charging. So an adapter between CHAdeMO and Tesla (either way) would need some real intelligence inside.
 
It's finding hosts that are both willing and capable of hosting 90 kW charging that is the hard part. Compared to that, the equipment cost is trivial.

ECOtality is two years into trying to build fast charging infrastructure with a federal grant that makes the equipment free and subsidizes the install costs. Even with that, they still have not planted a single station yet. In addition to finding a willing host that has parking they can reserve for infrequent use and power to spare (or the willingness to upgrade), there are lots of zoning issues, both for electrical and road use issues, plus demand charges that can make electricity more expensive than gasoline.

My advice: dream about Tesla's fast charge network, but buy the full 20 kW on-board charger and be ready to contribute to community-funded Level 2 infrastructure.

the 20kW onboard charger does not work in Europe because of lack of 3-ph rectifier. But i can replace the onboard 10kw charger by the 22kW 3-ph BRUSA NLG6 charger or use it as an external unit and then charge over the DC interface.
 
I honestly don't see a Tesla only DC charging network work. If it's limited to only Tesla Model S's charging there it simply won't work. Nobody is going to give up parking space nor infrastructure for that occasional Model S who might come by.

Covering the whole of Europe? No way! A long the major auto routes, it might. But what if my journey doesn't take me there? The CHaDemo chargers are being planted throughout Europe. Like Kevin Sharpe already posted in another thread, some restaurants are starting the place them at their places so a visiting Leaf or other CHaDemo capable car can charge while the driver is grabbing lunch/dinner.

Do we always need 90kW? No, I guess not. Is it cool to charge with 90kW when possible? Sure! Max power when possible.

I do a lot of travelling through Europe. I play paintball as a sport and go to tournaments everywhere, France, Germany, Belgium, the UK, Poland and ofcourse in the Netherlands. In the last few months I've been thinking: Could I have don this with my Model S? For most trips the answer is: Yes. But then I was still assuming 3-phase support would be available for the Model S.

This weekend I had a trip to to Northern part of Holland, 380km from my home. Do-able with the Model S. Because of the long trip I stayed at a friend of mine who leaves there and lives on a farm. Check, 3-phase 16A available. 11kW of power, enough to give me a overnight charge. I arrived on Saturday around 18:00, we had dinner, drunk some beers (Talked about the Model S) and I left again at 07:00 on Sunday morning.

On Sunday I was at the paintball field until 18:00. It was at a bungalow park. Ah, check, 3-phase 32A on the wall there! 22kW of power for me :)

That's how I've been doing my trips and discovering lately, just looking for those charge opportunities while I'm still driving a Hybrid/ICE.

To get back to the DC charging, as long as it is Tesla only and there is no way for other cars (without a completely new charger) to charge there, I think it's doomed and won't come off the ground.

CHaDemo is beginning to get traction right now and that's good. Like I said, 90kW is cool, but 50kW as well. Even some McDonald’s (which are franchise here) are starting to put CHaDemo chargers at their restaurants. Being there for let's say 20 min or 30 min would give you a extra 15 to 25 kWh, enough for somewhere between 80 and 100km!

Here again, the Tesla DC network (if it gets of the ground) should be open to other cars and not just with: "Sure, other cars can charge here, as long as they support OUR 'standard'", but vise versa, a Model S should be able to use the existing CHaDemo chargers.

It's re-inventing the wheel again, thinking they can do everything better than the rest and need no help from existing infrastructure.

AC (and here I go again!) 3-phase is everywhere, that is sufficient for 90% of the charging. I don't see the DC being used that much, other than the trip where you have to do 700km on one day.

The "95% of charging is done at home, so we don't need high power AC" is rubbish! Tom Sax made a great post about this: What charge port connector?

To conclude it once more: I seriously doubt if Tesla can get this up and running. I don't think so. A few chargers, probably. Covering Europe? No way.
 
To conclude it once more: I seriously doubt if Tesla can get this up and running. I don't think so. A few chargers, probably. Covering Europe? No way.
I suspect that Tesla has no understanding of the requirements of EV charging outside of the US. Without 3-Phase support I can't take the Model S into Mainland Europe, and even in the UK will be limited to the 70A HPC and 63A "mennekes" sites if I want to undertake same day journeys of 200+ miles assuming the car is fully loaded...
 
I suspect that Tesla has no understanding of the requirements of EV charging outside of the US. Without 3-Phase support I can't take the Model S into Mainland Europe, and even in the UK will be limited to the 70A HPC and 63A "mennekes" sites if I want to undertake same day journeys of 200+ miles assuming the car is fully loaded...
Agreed. Single phase AC support limits the charge rate in much of Europe to a maximum of 7 kW (32x230V). In many homes even that single phase rate may not be very widely installable - at least not without costly connection upgrades down to the road. Very often there may be just room for an additional 3x16A (11kW) connector. Converting that to a single phase at say 40A is possible, but is again expensive. Cars with on-board tri-phasic support will be at an advantage already for home charging (as planned by Renault).
Charge.jpg
 
presumably that means compatible with the Tesla proprietary DC Interface... so in reality that means that the BRUSA NLG6 charger must be re-engineered to support the Model S
There you get to the point that BRUSA might ask Tesla for some details, which might be hard to get.

nlg6.gif


That is the BRUSA NLG6 charger which should support 22kW 3-phase and output DC. It could be cool in the Model S, but where do you insert the 3-phase into the car? :) Which inlet? And what is going to do the EVSE talking to the charging station. A lot of questions and not so many answers at this point.

I've been giving the Tesla DC network some more thinking, but I really don't see how they are going to pay for that. 90kW of power, the monthly / yearly fee for just the power connection is HUGE! I'm paying EUR 1100,00 a year for just 3x40A.. 90kW is 3x130A, you are looking at fees of about EUR 1100,00 per month without even taking one kWh from that connection.

50kW is the scale for "low end users", but >50kW is expensive. I don't see that working for a DC network only dedicated to a Model S.