Norbert
TSLA will win
Ah thanks! Quoting the part directly related to Tesla:
(Probably a prototype to test the Model S in the real world, unless their 90 kW charger is ready for deployment...)
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Tesla DC charging network
- Thread starter dsm363
- Start date
Ah thanks! Quoting the part directly related to Tesla:
(Probably a prototype to test the Model S in the real world, unless their 90 kW charger is ready for deployment...)
To put a fast charger every 200 miles along US interstates would only require about 80 locations to cover the entire continental US. That will let a top end Model S drive anywhere in the US. The number of people who want to drive a Leaf 500 miles in a day is very close to zero. The stations being put in for the Leaf will not be in convenient places for cross country travel - they will be clustered around the cities.
I think Tesla should make this backbone network for the Model S and let the entities making the network for the Leaf fill in the edge cases with their lower power ( 50kW ) chargers.
I sure want the Model S to be able to use both, and would also be happy if the Tesla ones were exclusive so there was no waiting for the 100,000 Leafs on the road next year.
I think Tesla should make this backbone network for the Model S and let the entities making the network for the Leaf fill in the edge cases with their lower power ( 50kW ) chargers.
I sure want the Model S to be able to use both, and would also be happy if the Tesla ones were exclusive so there was no waiting for the 100,000 Leafs on the road next year.
Norbert
TSLA will win
I'd think if they are already prototyping/testing or actually working on the SF/LA Hwy 5 axis, they'd install 2-3 chargers (maybe one at the bottom of the Grapevine ascend). Of course, there is also Hwy 101 (Santa Barbara, San Luis Obispo) and Hwy 1 (Monterey/Carmel, Big Sur). Make your wish list... 
Kipernicus
Model S Res#P1440
I'm curious how well Model S will hold up for 200 miles at highway 5 speeds (70 limit, cruising speeds of 80-85+). Certainly will need the 300 mile pack!
Along the 101 the midpoint is Paso Robles/Atascadero, where those Rabo Bank chargers are. Hopefully there will be some DC there as well.
I believe San Luis Obispo is being planned due to the # of restaurants available and the extensive downtown area within walking distance.
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
I'd think if they are already prototyping/testing or actually working on the SF/LA Hwy 5 axis, they'd install 2-3 chargers (maybe one at the bottom of the Grapevine ascend). Of course, there is also Hwy 101 (Santa Barbara, San Luis Obispo) and Hwy 1 (Monterey/Carmel, Big Sur). Make your wish list...
I like all three of those options
Hi,
If the Model S 300 mile battery pack performs similarly to the Roadster battery pack, the range would be about 175 miles and 190 miles for cruising speeds of 80 and 85 mph respectively.
Roadster Range vs. Speed
Larry
My suggestion for Tesla is to sell the DC Charger at cost with multiple connectors; Tesla and CHAdeMO to start, and then SAE or whatever gets established next. Then owners, businesses, consortium, etc, could club together and deploy a solution that would meet the needs of both the Japanese and US car makers.
Some of the ZCW donation sites could be potential DC Charger locations. However, to make a commercial case in the UK we would need Leaf's to use the same locations. We would also need the 90kW Tesla Charger to be available at low cost.
I'd also suggest that Tesla deploy the same DC Charger 3-Phase front end in the European cars as an option. Maybe that involves 3 x 10kW Chargers at launch to keep it simple (note, I'd happily throw out the two kids and use the weight saved for a 3-Phase charging option).
Some of the ZCW donation sites could be potential DC Charger locations. However, to make a commercial case in the UK we would need Leaf's to use the same locations. We would also need the 90kW Tesla Charger to be available at low cost.
I'd also suggest that Tesla deploy the same DC Charger 3-Phase front end in the European cars as an option. Maybe that involves 3 x 10kW Chargers at launch to keep it simple (note, I'd happily throw out the two kids and use the weight saved for a 3-Phase charging option).
That was my first idea, when i talked to the power train architect, but he told me, that there where insufficient space to host 3 charger. Even connecting to two different phases seems impossible. but i am just back from the eCarTec show in Munic.
On display was an external 20kW DC Charger (with the Brusa NLG6 inside) priced at 15.000€
I would hope that a 10kW charger is not as big or heavy as two kids.... seems to me they could find room.
Well, the 90kW DC Charger must be using 3-Phase power so it's clearly possible somehow.
Sorry but I don't consider 15.000€ low cost :wink:
on a external housing you are free how connect those charges. to use 277V/480V 120A socket you place 3 chargers per phase. Thats why you get 90kW. Then you have to add shunts and electronic to run the charging protocol.
Inside the car, you have to connect both charger to an separate Inlet like mennekes Type 2 plus some controller for the protokoll as well. Or simple hardwire to a standard CEE socket.
Something else that should be considered --
I would expect that the failure rate or 'down-time' of a DC fast charge station will be higher than that of a 240VAC 'simple' EVSE, especially early on when the technology is still maturing.
Fast-charge stations should also be installed with a "backup" Level 2 AC EVSE, or at minimum a NEMA 14-50 plug on one of the supply phases (connected prior to the DC charge station to isolate it from faults).
While it would be a huge inconvenience to have to slowly charge at one of these stations, it would be far worse to count on its availability only to be stranded due to an issue with the DC charger and be left with no other options available...
I would expect that the failure rate or 'down-time' of a DC fast charge station will be higher than that of a 240VAC 'simple' EVSE, especially early on when the technology is still maturing.
Fast-charge stations should also be installed with a "backup" Level 2 AC EVSE, or at minimum a NEMA 14-50 plug on one of the supply phases (connected prior to the DC charge station to isolate it from faults).
While it would be a huge inconvenience to have to slowly charge at one of these stations, it would be far worse to count on its availability only to be stranded due to an issue with the DC charger and be left with no other options available...
Norbert
TSLA will win
Tesla will be using the same technology as is inside the Model S (9*10 kW), so it better be reliable.
Hopefully you're right. The issues may come more from the plug/cable (heavy use, dropped, run over) than with the charger electronics itself. But we have seen 'growing pains' even with early EVSEs and Nissan charger roll-outs.
My main point is to have a backup plan. Single point of failure and all.
Norbert
TSLA will win
Maybe it could have two cables, and use it so that you can already plug in a second car, and when the first car is done charging, it automatically switches over.
I think the right thing to do with ALL fast DC chargers is have more cables/connectors than the thing can actually power.
This alleviates the problem of somebody who plugs their car in for a 40 minute charge, but doesnt come back for an hour - wasting 20 plug minutes.
The charger should have a whole ton of cables and when you plug in, it will tell you if you are going to charge now, or later - and if later a screen can tell you how long you will wait for the charge to start and finish. Most likely you wont have to wait very much, and the computer should be able to you a very accurate time.
I much prefer this to unplugging someone elses car - its either this option or have a valet there to deal with it like at a gas station.
This alleviates the problem of somebody who plugs their car in for a 40 minute charge, but doesnt come back for an hour - wasting 20 plug minutes.
The charger should have a whole ton of cables and when you plug in, it will tell you if you are going to charge now, or later - and if later a screen can tell you how long you will wait for the charge to start and finish. Most likely you wont have to wait very much, and the computer should be able to you a very accurate time.
I much prefer this to unplugging someone elses car - its either this option or have a valet there to deal with it like at a gas station.
Plus, as I mentioned elsewhere, it would be good if the QC machines had multiple cable types (CHAdeMO / SAE / Tesla ) so that car drivers don't have to carry adapters around. There will be far fewer QCs than vehicles. I think it would make sense to have any signaling conversion done in the charger so the expense is shared by all that use it. It would be better than have everyone buy some expensive Tesla <-> CHAdeMO or CHAdeMO <-> SAE adapter that they only use a couple of times
On the subject of reliability - the charger is made from 9x 10kW bricks so in the event of a brick failure it should be possible to have 80kW. The could even have a 10th one in there for redundancy.
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