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Tesla/Ecotricity row - Evening Standard

Discussion in 'The UK and Ireland' started by arg, May 22, 2014.

  1. arg

    arg Member

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    #1 arg, May 22, 2014
    Last edited: May 22, 2014
  2. JRP3

    JRP3 Hyperactive Member

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    So is Ecotricity arguing that they should have a monopoly on charging stations?
     
  3. malcolm

    malcolm Active Member

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    #3 malcolm, May 22, 2014
    Last edited: May 22, 2014
    By "best locations" presumably that means the busiest. (And "busy" is what exactly? 2 Nissan Leafs a day and 7 at weekends?). How useful is this sort of information to Tesla when it is based on vehicles with completely different range capabilities?

    Ecotricity should use this as an opportunity to advertise special deals to Tesla owners if/when Tesla cars can connect to Ecotricity units via Chademo. It would be overkill to site superchargers at every Ecotricty location.

    How do petrol station operators resolve this sort of thing? There are plenty of places where rival stations are in close proximity.

    While they remain free to use, charging stations should compete on ease of use, reliability etc.

    Or is this a power supply problem? Multiple users dialback each other's supply.
     
  4. miimura

    miimura Active Member

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    Ecotricity clearly had their head in the sand if they thought that Tesla would NOT install Superchargers in the UK. Tesla's pattern of installing Superchargers along inter-city corridors is well known. Motorway Services locations are obvious sites.
     
  5. malcolm

    malcolm Active Member

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    #5 malcolm, May 22, 2014
    Last edited: May 23, 2014
    The petrol station analogy doesn't work. Rival forecourts don't share the same underground tank. Tesla and Ecotricity have to share out the power available from a fixed site maximum.

    ETA: http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/may/22/tesla-uk-utility-electric-car-charging-stations

    Tesla seem to want all the power available at a few sites.

    Pity they couldn't handle this better - because Chademo at Ecotricity sites will be a vital alternative in the event of supercharger queues/faults/maintenance etc.
     
  6. AWDtsla

    AWDtsla Active Member

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    There is no such thing. The utility can always upgrade their supply. Not to mention, Superchargers buffer power via battery pack anyway.

    Sounds like Ecotricity is upset because there is no franchising deal.
     
  7. drees

    drees Active Member

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    It seems to be that it would be in both Tesla and Ecotricity's best interest to install charging stations either at the same location or near by in most cases.

    Tesla owners get to charge on Ecotricity stations if all Tesla stations are full (good for both Tesla and Ecotricity) and non Tesla owners get to drool over Teslas and 120 kW SuperChargers.

    Site owner benefits as now they get even more captive EV owners for at least 30 minutes at a time.
     
  8. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    Reading more into it, it seems the problem is that Ecotricity has exclusivity agreements in prime locations and Tesla is trying to get location owners to end those exclusivity agreements and work directly with Tesla.
     
  9. Dan43

    Dan43 Member

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    That is how I read it, Ecotricity opened their contacts to Tesla I guess thinking a co-operation was on the table, but Tesla now want to go it alone, although Ecotricity have already established those relationships.
    Seems daft to think you would have both an Ecotricity and a Tesla charging station at the same site, leaving Ecotricity to have all the non-Tesla business I assume.
    On another thread it seems the M42 Hopwood Services have a new Tesla install being built.
     
  10. malcolm

    malcolm Active Member

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    That may be true in the long term. For now all Supercharger users compete for the same resources and need to consider stalls 1A 1B etc and live with varying power delivery, even when charging a warm, empty battery B.
     
  11. Cosmacelf

    Cosmacelf Active Member

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    That's only because Tesla designed their Superchargers that way. There is no reason it couldn't work with dedicated power to each stall. It has nothing to do with the power company. Anyway, the point is that in any one location, the power company can deliver as much power as needed for operating ecotricity and tesla equipment side by side...
     
  12. malcolm

    malcolm Active Member

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    Yeah. I've got a bit (!) fixated by all of this :). I'm still not clear if Tesla is going for exclusivity in term of contracts only or contracts and site occupancy.

    I can understand Tesla wanting to establish a strong supercharger presence (is that code for the beginnings of a monopoly?) and wanting to ensure the optimum setup for their systems since they need it to survive long term.

    Maybe two Gigafactories are small beer. National supercharger systems for Gen 3 are going to be BIG.
     
  13. dpeilow

    dpeilow Moderator

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    Ecotricity's stated aim was to equip all motorway services with rapid chargers. There is at least one site where they have pulled back from that because of a site power supply limit. Yes they could upgrade it, but the cost is reported to be extortionate.

    Now we're talking about finding enough power for a couple of 50 kW and a 135 kW supercharger. That's a different ball game and is going to be expensive at any location. As Ecotricity are already there (and that network has mostly been installed with tax payer's money) I think Tesla should be putting their hands in their pockets for the supply upgrade.

    I have to say I'm not surprised to hear about this development.
     
  14. drees

    drees Active Member

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    Doesn't Tesla always put their hands in their pockets for supply upgrades unless they convince the utility to do it for them?

    Either way, Tesla usually needs quite a bit more than 135 kW. Typical SuperCharger installs have been 6-8 plugs with each pair capable of 135 kW, or 405-540 kW. Losing a pair of plugs so Ecotricity can install two ~50 kW DCQC stations is not a big deal in most circumstances at this time.
     
  15. AWDtsla

    AWDtsla Active Member

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    Not with power buffering via Tesla battery back. Tesla is not getting half a megawatt supply at every supercharger station.
     
  16. JRP3

    JRP3 Hyperactive Member

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    Do all SCs have a buffer pack? I've never been clear on that.
     
  17. drees

    drees Active Member

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    Only Tejon Ranch has on site battery storage (200 kW, 400 kWh) as far as Tesla has disclosed so far. (Well, and Fremont, but Fremont's install is integrated with the factory instead of the SuperCharger - Fremont has 4 or 5 200 kW / 400 kWh storage blocks).

    Should be easy to spot, just look for the slightly bigger than pallet sized brick hiding behind a wall.
     
  18. Cottonwood

    Cottonwood Roadster#433, Model S#S37

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    Very, very few Superchargers in the U.S. have battery pack power buffering yet, and, yes, most have 250 to 500 kW connections (quarter to half megaWatt).
     
  19. Cosmacelf

    Cosmacelf Active Member

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    Yes, the recently added San Juan Capistrano supercharger site, with 7 bays, has a 480 kW transformer.
     
  20. malcolm

    malcolm Active Member

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    Power upgrades will be needed if phase 3 is going to stand a chance. Hopefully Tesla is working on that process now. 2-stall systems aren't even going to be sufficient for Model S owners at certain times of the holiday calendar.
     

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