Tesla Energy and utility scale projects

[adiggs]

Minor update on the South Australia 100MW/MWh tender:
South Australia seeks battery storage proposals from short-list

Final proposals from the short listed expressions of interest are due earl this month (article written on June 1 - I take that to mean June), with the decision of which to take to follow quickly. Still with intent to have the incremental storage online for the Australian summer (which I assume to be December through March, give or take).

 

[TheTalkingMule]

Theoretically in 3Q17 Tesla could announce:

• First deliveries of Model 3 with all ramp-up timelines intact.
• A cheap online replacement for the residential solar PPA product.
• Engagement to solve the entire energy crisis in South Australia.

Not bad.

 

[geneclean55]

Minor update on the South Australia 100MW/MWh tender:
South Australia seeks battery storage proposals from short-list

Final proposals from the short listed expressions of interest are due earl this month (article written on June 1 - I take that to mean June), with the decision of which to take to follow quickly. Still with intent to have the incremental storage online for the Australian summer (which I assume to be December through March, give or take).

“A final decision on the successful bidder will be made as soon as possible after responses are received, with the project expected to be completed by 1 December.”

Hopefully, we have a winner announced by the end of this month.

 

[Bgarret]

“A final decision on the successful bidder will be made as soon as possible after responses are received, with the project expected to be completed by 1 December.”

Hopefully, we have a winner announced by the end of this month.

I would think that would bode well for Tesla. Who else has the capacity and speed to install 100 MW/MWh in such an abbreviated time frame...about 5 months, soup to nuts.

 

[adiggs]

http://reneweconomy.com.au/queensland-fast-tracks-auction-for-400mw-renewables-energy-storage-73620/

The Australian state of Queensland is putting out 400MW of energy generation and 100MW (unknown MWh) energy storage for a reverse auction. The storage end of this is why I'm posting - I see no further concrete details; only a hazy "fast track" and to be held in the back half of the year for timing.

 

[brian45011]

Queensland fast-tracks auction for 400MW renewables, energy storage

The Australian state of Queensland is putting out 400MW of energy generation and 100MW (unknown MWh) energy storage for a reverse auction. The storage end of this is why I'm posting - I see no further concrete details; only a hazy "fast track" and to be held in the back half of the year for timing.

Has TSLA pre-qualified to bid in the reverse auction for storage? Is it fair to assume that with GF2 yet to start production, the energy generation part is a no-bid from TSLA?

 

[EinSV]

Queensland fast-tracks auction for 400MW renewables, energy storage

The Australian state of Queensland is putting out 400MW of energy generation and 100MW (unknown MWh) energy storage for a reverse auction. The storage end of this is why I'm posting - I see no further concrete details; only a hazy "fast track" and to be held in the back half of the year for timing.

Very promising. I took the liberty of cross-posting in the general thread since I think this may be of broader interest.

 

[adiggs]

Has TSLA pre-qualified to bid in the reverse auction for storage? Is it fair to assume that with GF2 yet to start production, the energy generation part is a no-bid from TSLA?

I have no other information beyond what's in that article; the article mentioning only that Queensland is doing this, and not mentioning any vendors that have expressed interest or who have previously participated in doing or attempting to win bids for doing something like this.


This particular web site does an excellent job of covering Australia. If anybody learns of other sites that cover the industry more broadly, or cover the industry for different countries / states / continents, please mention them.

 

[brian45011]

If anybody learns of other sites that cover the industry more broadly, or cover the industry for different countries / states / continents, please mention them.

DOE Global Energy Storage Database

Utility and Energy Transmission & Distribution News | Utility Dive

 

[adiggs]

WA national park taken off-grid by local network

I think this is what early grid defections will look like. Only here, it's the state utility (Western Australia) which has a mammoth service area with low population density. They're finding that out at the fringe of the power grid, they can more cheaply install solar, battery storage, and a diesel generator backup (primary power is solar and battery storage, diesel generator kicks in for cloudy periods is my understanding) instead of installing and maintaining poles and wire to connect some of these distant locations to the grid.

And they're doing more and more of these micro-grids to avoid maintaining and reinstalling poles and wires. Even uninstalling poles and wires in a few cases.


In the developing world, proof points like this will help make the case for building out micro-grids that are self-contained, over building a big infrastructure of poles and wires to carry power from a distant and centralized power producing station.

To be clear, this doesn't mean the end of big power plants and transmission grids. The way I see it, this opens a new approach that can be used where it makes financial and reliability sense, and the poles / wires transmission grid can be built where that makes sense.

 

[brian45011]

"Alice Springs, already dubbed Australia’s “solar centre”, will be able to significantly lift its share of solar in its local grid after a tender for a 5MW battery storage array was awarded to New Zealand utility Vector.

The installation will likely be the biggest in Australia – at least until it is overtaken by one of the Victoria and South Australia tenders currently in progress – and will see Vector use LG Chem batteries, Siemens inverters and Yokogawa control systems."

Vector/LG Chem win 5MW battery storage tender for Alice Springs

Seems like a new combination on the supply side.

 

[vgrinshpun]

"Alice Springs, already dubbed Australia’s “solar centre”, will be able to significantly lift its share of solar in its local grid after a tender for a 5MW battery storage array was awarded to New Zealand utility Vector.

The installation will likely be the biggest in Australia – at least until it is overtaken by one of the Victoria and South Australia tenders currently in progress – and will see Vector use LG Chem batteries, Siemens inverters and Yokogawa control systems."

Vector/LG Chem win 5MW battery storage tender for Alice Springs

Seems like a new combination on the supply side.

Interesting quote form the article:

Duignan says when battery prices come down further, more will be added to further extend solar penetration, including time shifting, meaning that renewables will “take control of the grid.”

The pricing for this project seem to be indeed outrageously high: $8.3M / 3.333MWh = $2490/kWh. Even if one assumes that all in cost is 3x of the battery cost, an unrealistically high number, this will yield $830/kWh.

 

[SageBrush]

The pricing for this project seem to be indeed outrageously high: $8.3M / 3.333MWh = $2490/kWh. Even if one assumes that all in cost is 3x of the battery cost, an unrealistically high number, this will yield $830/kWh.

I am not sure how much storage is being sold, but the article says that 40 minutes of supply is included. They also say that minimum load is 13 kW, average 25 kW. So storage works out to to either 13*2/3 MWh or 25*2/3 MWh. That works out to about $500 per kWh for the latter case.

Best case, 8.3M AusD bought 16.7 MWh battery storage in addition to grid stability services and savings infrastructure savings. This number should also be read in context, since it gives the area room to grow to put more solar on the grid. The article says they pay off the investment in 4 years. Sounded like an easy choice.

 

[vgrinshpun]

I am not sure how much storage is being sold, but the article says that 40 minutes of supply is included. They also say that minimum load is 13 kW, average 25 kW. So storage works out to to either 13*2/3 MWh or 25*2/3 MWh. That works out to about $500 per kWh for the latter case.

Best case, 8.3M AusD bought 16.7 MWh battery storage in addition to grid stability services and savings infrastructure savings. This number should also be read in context, since it gives the area room to grow to put more solar on the grid. The article says they pay off the investment in 4 years. Sounded like an easy choice.

This is not how the energy rating of the battery is calculated.

According to the article "The battery array – 5MW with 40 minutes of storage..." This means that the battery is rated 5MW, 3.333MWh.

My comment was not about the value of the battery to the grid, but about outrageously high price per kWh charged by Vector/LG Chem. Something does not add up here.

 

[adiggs]

S.A. to announce storage winner, delays EST mechanism

Should hear about the big South Australia tender in the next week. There are two other big tenders out as well by states in Australia, one we should hear about soon (week or month), and one that will be later in the year.

 

[SageBrush]

According to the article "The battery array – 5MW with 40 minutes of storage..." This means that the battery is rated 5MW, 3.333MWh.

Perhaps, but in the second hand descriptions of the RFP I found, the utility mentions that they want to reduce the spinning reserve of a fossil fuel plant from 8 MW to 3 MW for for peak hours. They also describe 20 - 60 minutes of reserve. In both cases they were talking about grid characteristics, not the battery.

 

[adiggs]

I love this reneweconomy.au website.

No batteries required: pumped hydro for solar energy storage

Article about a private company that is putting together a big pumped hydro project. Besides a whole heck of a lot of storage in another form than batteries, it's a project that provides a pointer to other commercial projects around the globe. Along with an idea of how they work, and the scale of the opportunity elsewhere.

 

[geneclean55]

S.A. to announce storage winner, delays EST mechanism

Should hear about the big South Australia tender in the next week. There are two other big tenders out as well by states in Australia, one we should hear about soon (week or month), and one that will be later in the year.

At least Mike Cannon-Brookes still has the bromance thing going on

 

[vgrinshpun]

Perhaps, but in the second hand descriptions of the RFP I found, the utility mentions that they want to reduce the spinning reserve of a fossil fuel plant from 8 MW to 3 MW for for peak hours. They also describe 20 - 60 minutes of reserve. In both cases they were talking about grid characteristics, not the battery.

Something does not add up here. The typical startup of the gas peaker plant is several minutes - say 10. In order to reduce this time, instead of having peaker in stand-by it is constantly run in idle - this is referred to as spinning reserve. So in order to replace spinning reserve (buy time until peaker starts-up from being shut down), one would need to provide desirable power (MW) just for few minutes (less than 10), not 20-60 minutes.

Do you have link for the source you are trying to quote, so I can take a look?

 

[brian45011]

"On Tuesday, PowerSecure, the provider of a 1.5-gigawatt fleet of backup power systems at grocery stores, data centers and military bases across the country, announced a partnership with Advanced Microgrid Solutions, the California startup that’s building more than 100 megawatts of utility-facing behind-the-meter battery systems."
Batteries Plus Backup Power: Advanced Microgrid Solutions Partners With PowerSecure

Interesting combination:
AMS' hybrid buildings have used PowerPacks.

PowerSecure's projects have used a "generator", i.e. using reciprocating engine technology... using diesel/bio-diesel and natural gas fuel mixes..." http://powersecure.com/wp-content/u...ns-for-Electric-Utilities-Brochure-3.2011.pdf