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Tesla Energy and utility scale projects

Discussion in 'TSLA Investor Discussions' started by adiggs, Mar 16, 2017.

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  1. Doggydogworld

    Doggydogworld Active Member

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    Around 4:30 you can see the Dynegy packs on the other side of the building. Their 300 MWs went online late last year, with another 100 MW slated to connect this August.
     
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  2. MC3OZ

    MC3OZ Active Member

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    Every time I look at the big picture on the topic, it is very apparent that LFP based Megapacks can't come soon enough.

    Overtime I am find more reasons why this is important in lots of ways.

    So IMO Tesla has to bite the bullet and start up a LFP based 4680 Roadrunner factory as soon as it can be done.
    A dedicated factory build cells for Megapack / Powerpack, will free up cells for Powerwall and give the energy storage business a boost.

    I also think Megapack / Powerpack, will be needed an Megachargers and hence needed as part of the Tesla Semi project,

    I have noticed Drew mentions energy storage batteries frequently, so I am optimistic.
     
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  3. UkNorthampton

    UkNorthampton TSLA - 12+ startups in 1

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    4680 cells probably not best size for LFP stationary storage.

    Better than alternatives, but my understanding of the heat means that even larger cells could be made. Either way, any kind of LFP good, 4680 great, optimum better still
     
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  4. mspohr

    mspohr Well-Known Member

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    I agree. LFP is the best solution for stationary energy storage. High cycle count and much safer.
    I've decided to use LFP for my home backup system. LFP prismatic cells from China are close to $100/kWH.
     
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  5. MC3OZ

    MC3OZ Active Member

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    #645 MC3OZ, Mar 4, 2021 at 9:42 PM
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2021 at 10:16 PM
    I would like to see them stick with 4680 just in case there is a chance of LFP Powerwalls at some stage in the future.

    I've given that some thought, and there is one architecture which might work.

    2 kWh LFP Modules which dock with a wall mounted frame, to build a Powerwall in a "Lego Like" construction method.

    Electrical connection and any cooling loop would be via the frame.

    If a standard size frame accommodates up to 6 LFP modules, it has a capacity anywhere from 2 kWh to 12 kWh.

    Take that one step further and frames could be designed for 2,4,6,8,9,10 Modules. So a capacity of 2kWh-20 kWh in a variety of form factors. Bad modules could be swapped out, and batteries, could be upgraded to higher capacity.

    All that remains is the extra weight of LFP batteries, and the extra space required, as this design helps overcome installation issues, and makes Powerwalls more flexible.

    With a modern design, LFP Powerwalls based on 4680 cells, might not be substantially thicker than a regular Powerwall.

    Going back to my experience at building sites in my youth, the optimal (new build) design is build the battery frame into the wall frame, for a steel or timber framed house. So in this case the Powerwall is part of the wall, removing it would mean patching up a wall.

    LFP based Powerwalls with swappable modules, are well worth this level of hassle and planning.

    The energy density of LFP may continue to improve, and Tesla might have an even better solution.

    One way or another, I hope they are considering LFP for home batteries.
     
  6. mspohr

    mspohr Well-Known Member

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    I believe Sonnen and some other backup power systems use this approach to add LFP storage modules.
    It doesn't require the 4680 format. Any format will work.
     
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  7. MC3OZ

    MC3OZ Active Member

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    It is easy for Tesla to standardize on 4680, and tab-less cell probably enhances the excellent thermal properties of LFP.

    it is likely Tesla can use 4680 LFP in Megapack and Powerpack with only minor design changes.

    Powerwall needs more of an overhaul, but that redesign is an opportunity to improve the product.
     

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