Tesla Energy and utility scale projects

[neroden]

I don't really want to go off the grid, but I also don't like blackouts. (I think this is a substantial part of the battery storage market; people in places where the grid operator is unreliable.)

 

[SwTslaGrl]

First look at Tesla’s new ‘most powerful battery system in the world’ project in Australia

Musk gets connection deal for Tesla big battery, and then switches it on

 

[adiggs]

First look at Tesla’s new ‘most powerful battery system in the world’ project in Australia

Musk gets connection deal for Tesla big battery, and then switches it on

You beat me getting this posted.

The second link makes it pretty clear that the risk of Tesla donating the big battery is low. The day they signed the interconnect agreement, marking the start of the 100 day or it's free window, and 1/2 of the system is installed and being used on day one.

Also very good news to the larger industry - order the battery and it really will get installed and usable REALLY fast.

 

[adiggs]

Samsung scores a big battery installation in South Australia:
Samsung chosen for new 30MW battery storage facility in S.A.

The article says 30MW / 8 MWh. I'm kind of assuming the author has that backwards - that it's really 8MW / 30 MWh.

 

[vgrinshpun]

Samsung scores a big battery installation in South Australia:
Samsung chosen for new 30MW battery storage facility in S.A.

The article says 30MW / 8 MWh. I'm kind of assuming the author has that backwards - that it's really 8MW / 30 MWh.

No, the author has it right. The main application for this installation is frequency response, which is high power, low duration application, hence power rating is multiples of the energy capacity. the multiplier you apparently have in mind ( say Energy capacity = 4 x power rating) is for the battery installations designed to make solar dispatchable.

I would also note pretty high cost of this system. I suspect that ABB sold their expertise in power conversion equipment, perhaps due to unique requirements (perhaps complicated system stability criteria) that system operator had for this BES. Another factor in high cost is probably high power rating of the battery - 3.75C.

Here is the key quote from the article:

Its main function will be to provide fast frequency response services in case of a fault, but it will also be able to provide back-up power in the event of a blackout, effectively creating a renewable energy based micro-grid, which AGL boss Andy Vesey said last year was the best way to ensure reliable supply.

 

[EinSV]

Elon on Twitter has suggested Tesla could rebuild Puerto Rico's electricity infrastructure with solar and batteries. This could get interesting ....

Elon Musk on Twitter

 

[EinSV]

Interesting (non-) update on the large Victoria, Australia storage project. The winners still have not been announced even though the project completion deadline is January 1 — only 2.5 months away. Storage on hold as Victoria still reviewing battery tender

Some are speculating that winners have been chosen but contract negotiations are ongoing. The short time window may suggest Tesla is going to play a significant role, but that is speculative at this point.

Also a 4 MW Tesla battery was installed in the UK recently. UK aggregator Kiwi’s Tesla battery will provide 24/7 frequency response. KiWi Power, the demand side management company that installed it, “has now begun an extensive roll-out of similar batteries across the UK within the commercial and industrial (C&I) sectors” although I could not tell from the article if all of the batteries will be supplied by Tesla.

IMO the signs are that Tesla will sell all the Powerpacks and Powerwalls it can make for the foreseeable future.

 

[GoTslaGo]

Interesting (non-) update on the large Victoria, Australia storage project. The winners still have not been announced even though the project completion deadline is January 1 — only 2.5 months away. Storage on hold as Victoria still reviewing battery tender

Some are speculating that winners have been chosen but contract negotiations are ongoing. The short time window may suggest Tesla is going to play a significant role, but that is speculative at this point.

Also a 4 MW Tesla battery was installed in the UK recently. UK aggregator Kiwi’s Tesla battery will provide 24/7 frequency response. KiWi Power, the demand side management company that installed it, “has now begun an extensive roll-out of similar batteries across the UK within the commercial and industrial (C&I) sectors” although I could not tell from the article if all of the batteries will be supplied by Tesla.

IMO the signs are that Tesla will sell all the Powerpacks and Powerwalls it can make for the foreseeable future.

Wonder if Tesla can start building batteries in Buffalo, not just PV?

 

[generalenthu]

Elon on Twitter has suggested Tesla could rebuild Puerto Rico's electricity infrastructure with solar and batteries. This could get interesting ....

Elon Musk on Twitter

Good discussion on this.

Elon Musk Is Only Somewhat Right That Tesla’s Solar & Storage Can Scale To Rebuild Puerto Rico’s Grid

 

[EinSV]

Good discussion on this.

Elon Musk Is Only Somewhat Right That Tesla’s Solar & Storage Can Scale To Rebuild Puerto Rico’s Grid

Thank you for posting this -- very interesting summary of all of the challenges to getting this done (the headline doesn't do the article justice).

The author's conclusions that solar could come from many sources (especially China) but that batteries will need to come primarily from Tesla seems right since no other battery manufacturer will be at the same scale/cost as Tesla barring some unexpected developments.

If he is right that 55 GWh of storage is needed and assuming Tesla supplies 75%, that would require a substantial percentage of the production of GF1 between now and 2020, assuming Tesla is able to reach the ambitious 150 GWh/year pack production goal that Elon has mentioned.

If the author's numbers are right and some massive deal is struck, it could accelerate plans for the next generation of gigafactories (GF 3, 4, 5 etc.), although given the normal pace of politics and the problems Puerto Rico faces this may not be resolved as quickly as it should. Will be interesting to see how this unfolds, especially how the financial, political and regulatory issues are handled. For the sake of the people of Puerto Rico I really hope they can get this done.

 

[vgrinshpun]

ST. THOMAS — Senator Janette Millin Young, in a release issued late Monday, said her office has been in communication with Tesla and its SolarCity subsidiary, to come up with temporary and perhaps long-term solutions to provide energy services to the U.S. Virgin Islands.

Scientists and energy experts have said that a distributed grid that is not reliant on a single power plant for energy generation, could help vulnerable island regions like the Caribbean withstand powerful storms like Hurricanes Irma or Maria. The Caribbean is also most vulnerable to hurricanes, which are predicted to gain in strength with each passing year because of global warming.

Solar panels can feed their power into batteries and be linked together into local or regional power grids, and are also well suited for tropical regions. The technology could save the U.S. Virgin Islands millions — savings that could be passed on to residents — which in turn could boost the local economy as dollars once used for utilities could be spent elsewhere. Cheaper energy costs could also entice industries to the USVI that are heavily reliant on its use.

“When we are facing the sort of infrastructure destruction we have seen this hurricane season, it only makes sense to give some pause before reinvesting in the exact same system that proved to vulnerable,” Gwen Holdmann, who directs the Alaska Center for Energy and Power at the University of Alaska at Fairbanks, told The Washington Post recently. “If [Puerto Rico’s] system were redesigned around microgrids incorporating local power production, there would still be losses, but the number and duration of outages due to severe weather events would decrease.”

 

[vgrinshpun]

AES: Batteries helped keep lights on in Dominican Republic during Hurricane Maria.

The article does not mention MWh capacity of their systems, but given that they used for frequency control it is likely a fraction of their 20MW power rating.

In the Dominican Republic AES Energy Storage installed two 10 MW battery systems at power plants owned by its AES Dominicana affiliate.

AES’ Andres and Los Mina storage facilities, which entered service in February and May, were able to provide frequency control to the grid, allowing the power plants more optimally, the company said. All of AES Dominicana’s plant in the DR remained online during the storms.

“AES Dominicana’s energy storage arrays enhanced the Dominican grid during a most trying time, helping keep vital power resources online,” John Zahurancik, president of AES Energy Storage, said in a statement. “Not only does energy storage improve reliability of the grid on a daily basis, this experience demonstrates how it can add to overall resilience under extreme conditions.”

 

[vgrinshpun]

Vestas to build first large-scale battery storage project for wind, solar, will be using Tesla Powerpacks.

The project in Australia aims to bring down the cost of renewable energy production and help secure a steady supply of renewable power to the grid regardless of weather conditions.

It will use batteries supplied by U.S. electric carmaker Tesla Inc(TSLA) and is expected to generate enough power to supply more than 35,000 average Australian homes.

The Australian project will consist of 43.2 MW of wind power capacity using twelve of Vestas' V136-3.6 MW turbines, 15 MW of solar and 2 MW of battery storage.

 

[kenliles]

ST. THOMAS — Senator Janette Millin Young, in a release issued late Monday, said her office has been in communication with Tesla and its SolarCity subsidiary, to come up with temporary and perhaps long-term solutions to provide energy services to the U.S. Virgin Islands.

and as a reminder- now 3 weeks

 

[Cal1]

I asked this on another thread but it seems more appropriate here:

Is Tesla giving the power packs to Puerto Rico for free? I've tried to find any reference but everything seems to focus on Tesla providing a solution. Nothing indicating that Tesla will be making $. Corporate altruism is wonderful when you get big enough. Not sure we're there yet.

 

[vgrinshpun]

Vestas to build first large-scale battery storage project for wind, solar, will be using Tesla Powerpacks.

More details on this project from the reneweconomy.com:

It combines 43.2MW of wind, 15MW of single axis tracking solar PV, and a 4MWh lithium-ion battery storage system supplied by US giant Tesla. Construction is expected to take a little over 12 months, creating 100 jobs during this time, and the project is expected to be fully operational before the end of 2018.

“We believe Kennedy Energy Park will demonstrate how effectively wind, solar and storage can be combined to provide low cost, reliable and clean energy for Australia’s future”, said Windlab CEO Roger Price in comments on Thursday.

As noted above, it is the first phase of a potential $2 billion-plus, 1200MW renewable energy precinct planned for North Queensland to exploit the region’s “exceptional” wind resource and “excellent solar irradiation pattern.”

“The second phase of Kennedy, phase II or ‘Big Kennedy’ as we like to call it, is 100% owned by Windlab and will provide up to 1,200MW of wind energy, critical in balancing the large amounts of solar generation that will be connected to the Queensland grid as it moves toward 50% renewable energy capacity,” said Price.

“The fact that wind generation in Queensland is biased towards the late afternoon, evening and night makes it ideal for matching large amounts of solar generation, thereby reducing the need for storage and other peaking capacity across the network. This is why Big Kennedy is a central component of the Queensland Government’s Powering North Queensland Plan.”

Pairing solar and wind that have peak generation at the different time of the day allows for less variable overall renewable energy supply reducing the size of required battery storage.

 

[ValueAnalyst]

Wonder if Tesla can start building batteries in Buffalo, not just PV?

Didn't Tesla have an option to ramp Gigafactory 2 to 5 GW annual? What happened to that?

I asked this on another thread but it seems more appropriate here:

Is Tesla giving the power packs to Puerto Rico for free? I've tried to find any reference but everything seems to focus on Tesla providing a solution. Nothing indicating that Tesla will be making $. Corporate altruism is wonderful when you get big enough. Not sure we're there yet.

I don't think it is. Isn't congress debating emergency funds?

Thank you for posting this -- very interesting summary of all of the challenges to getting this done (the headline doesn't do the article justice).

The author's conclusions that solar could come from many sources (especially China) but that batteries will need to come primarily from Tesla seems right since no other battery manufacturer will be at the same scale/cost as Tesla barring some unexpected developments.

If he is right that 55 GWh of storage is needed and assuming Tesla supplies 75%, that would require a substantial percentage of the production of GF1 between now and 2020, assuming Tesla is able to reach the ambitious 150 GWh/year pack production goal that Elon has mentioned.

If the author's numbers are right and some massive deal is struck, it could accelerate plans for the next generation of gigafactories (GF 3, 4, 5 etc.), although given the normal pace of politics and the problems Puerto Rico faces this may not be resolved as quickly as it should. Will be interesting to see how this unfolds, especially how the financial, political and regulatory issues are handled. For the sake of the people of Puerto Rico I really hope they can get this done.

55 GWh approximated as one day. Why one day?

 

[neroden]

No, the author has it right. The main application for this installation is frequency response, which is high power, low duration application, hence power rating is multiples of the energy capacity. the multiplier you apparently have in mind ( say Energy capacity = 4 x power rating) is for the battery installations designed to make solar dispatchable.

I would also note pretty high cost of this system.

So, here's the trick. A given cell design has an essentially fixed ratio of energy capacity to power rating. Samsung is presumably using a specific chemistry to get this result.

Another factor in high cost is probably high power rating of the battery - 3.75C.

Tesla did something much, much cleverer.

Tesla's batteries have a 4:1 hr capacity to power ratio. (Technically that rating is in units of hours.) South Australian government wanted a low (say, 1:10 hr, though that's not the right number) capacity to power ratio, for their frequency response. Neoen wanted a high (say, 8:1 hr) capacity to power ratio, for their arbitrage of the differing power costs at different times.

Tesla figured out that they could build a single battery system with a 4:1 hr capacity to power ratio, contract with the South Australian government for a higher power rate at a lower capacity, and then contract with Neoen for a lower power rate at a higher capacity. They can meet the guarantees in both contracts with a battery which has a ratio somewhere in between the two contracted ratios.

It's a very neat solution. The financials will be *way* better than selling in either market independently. I think Tesla may be the first to have figured this out.

If Tesla can replicate this "two contract" business model and others don't manage to copy it quickly, Tesla will be dominating the utility-scale battery market.

 

[neroden]

I asked this on another thread but it seems more appropriate here:

Is Tesla giving the power packs to Puerto Rico for free? I've tried to find any reference but everything seems to focus on Tesla providing a solution. Nothing indicating that Tesla will be making $. Corporate altruism is wonderful when you get big enough. Not sure we're there yet.

All indications are that they are not giving (most of) the Powerpacks and Powerwalls for free, though they may be giving *some* of them away and they are probably providing a discount. And Musk personally donated $250K directly to the PR relief effort.

They may be using the SolarCity zero-money-down model. This works on Puerto Rico and the USVI, because they were paying crazy high electricity prices before -- so even with the added cost of interest rates of 7%+ they would probably be paying less on a leased solar/battery system than they were paying before. Which makes them good credit risks.

 

[Cal1]

Thank God!!! Looks like Tesla is becoming the rebuilt it right choice. Not sure if many get the significance of this. Especially if you combine that with the global move to mandating gas free cars by a certain date.