Tesla Energy FAQ?

[Yonki]

I got a Tesla solar + Powerwall system in September and I'm trying to understand the entire system better, at least down to the different modules - what they do, how they communicate, what controls what, etc... Looking at a few of the posts here, it's clear that many of you know a lot about the gear. I want to catch up - is there a resource where a lot of this is documented? Or should I just look for motherlode threads?

I was highly motivated to dig deeper today, when a friend pushed on the low-voltage wires circled below in the AC Disconnect aka Load Center aka Backup Gateway box and all the power went out (permanently disconnected from the grid and Powerwall was at 0%)*. Anyway, I realized I don't even know what that big black box on the left does. Or where the second pair of CT sensors going to the Neurio are (first pair are on the mains). Would also like to be able to see how much each panel/power optimizer is producing if that's possible.

So if there's some place I can read up on all this I'd love to know about it.

*Problem seemed to be the connector circled - it was loose. Put it in firmly, waited an hour or so (because we forgot that the black hole above the ethernet jack is for RESET), and everything's working fine now.

 

[miimura]

The big box on the left is the Gateway computer. Above that is the Neurio, which measures the power flows in the system. My understanding is that the Gateway and Neruio communicate over RS-485 through the gray/purple/blue wires. At the bottom of the Gateway, there are brown/white/yellow/blue wires for the Powerwall(s) to communicate with the Gateway. The black and white twisted wires are for the Current Transformers which allow the Neurio to measure currents for the solar and grid. The Powerwalls digitally report how much power they are charging or discharging, but usually they are taking that command from the Gateway, not the other way around.

 

[cwied]

I'm guessing the other wires (the ones bundled together) go to the transfer switch/relay, which is presumably the assembly on the right. Jiggling the wires might have caused that to switch off.

 

[Yonki]

Thanks miimura. Although I'm not sure about the RS485 in the Neurio. According to the Neurio installation guide, the 4 wire connector on the bottom left is the voltage input (H1, H2, N, and one not-connected) that both powers the Neurio and provides the Neurio the amplitude & phase of the AC. The first two current sensors to the right of that connector (2-conductor gray wires) measure the inverter current with a pair of CT clamps. The final 2 current inputs (white and black twisted pair) sense the current in the grid connection. So I think the Neurio is using WiFi to communicate, not RS485 (unless they are modulating it onto the 240V AC, which I guess is possible).

Communication is one thing I've been working to understand better. I've figured out a lot (including the password to my inverter - very happy about that), but would like to know more:

• The little black box that hooks to my home internet communicates wirelessly to the system and is how the Tesla server connects to the system. Text on the box indicates ZigBee. Which device(s) does it connect to? Guessing Inverter and maybe Gateway Computer.
• The Neurio is WiFi only and "Paired At Factory". Paired to what? I'm guessing Inverter, but I guess it could be the Powerwall hotspot. I hate to think my Tesla Solar System is creating TWO additional 2.4GHz hotspots.
• The Gateway Computer has multiple antennas (WiFi? ZigBee?) - what's it connecting to? It appears to be wired to the Powerwall over RS485.
• The SE3000H-US inverter appears to have a ZigBee server and at least one RS485 connection. Props to this video for suggesting the password is 12312312 - I just tried it and I got in to the config section!
• The Powerwall has its own Wifi hotspot (SSID TEG-xxx) that is apparently only used for debugging (? - read that in a Powerwall thread). The installers didn't record the Powerwall serial number so I haven't been able to log in and see what's there. Also, my Powerwall doesn't have the nice tab Ulmo documented here. I haven't been able to figure out how to remove the siding and get the serial number that way.

Does anyone have any additions/corrections?

 

[Yonki]

I'm guessing the other wires (the ones bundled together) go to the transfer switch/relay, which is presumably the assembly on the right. Jiggling the wires might have caused that to switch off.

Pretty much. The 20 pin connector was barely connecting. We pushed it back in until locked, and not only was power restored, but all the problems I've been having since the install (mostly power readings in Tesla app that had a 300W error and sometimes the app wouldn't connect to the server for hours) went away.

 

[power.saver]

The Neurio communicates to the Gateway via Wi-Fi, not RS-485. The blue/purple/grey wires are the AC line and neutral inputs. It is paired to the Gateway Wi-Fi and won't connect to any other network. The two antennas on top of the Gateway are 3G cellular in case Ethernet/Wi-Fi goes down. The Gateway doesn't have Zigbee, so your black box is probably only communicating with your inverter. Your Gateway S/N is on the sticker in the picture, it starts with TG1181...

 

[cwied]

If you have a SolarEdge inverter that is connected to the Internet, you should be able to contact your installer to set up an account with SolarEdge's monitoring system, by the way. You can also get an API key from SolarEdge so you can have pvoutput log the data.

 

[Yonki]

The Neurio...is paired to the Gateway Wi-Fi and won't connect to any other network. The two antennas on top of the Gateway are 3G cellular in case Ethernet/Wi-Fi goes down. The Gateway doesn't have Zigbee, so your black box is probably only communicating with your inverter.

So that would make the path:

Tesla Servers<->Internet<->My LAN<->Black Box<-[ZigBee]->Inverter<-[WiFi_A]->Gateway<-[WiFi_B]->Neurio<-RS485->Powerwall<-[WiFI_C]->nothing

Could it really be that complicated? Surely they'd combine some of the WiFi connections so it's not creating 3 different networks. Though it would explain some of why I see 22 different 2.4GHz SSIDs in my garage.

Your Gateway S/N is on the sticker in the picture, it starts with TG1181...

Yes, but I'm trying to find a way to get my Powerwall S/N.

 

[Yonki]

If you have a SolarEdge inverter that is connected to the Internet, you should be able to contact your installer to set up an account with SolarEdge's monitoring system, by the way.

That would be great, but my installer is Tesla...they'll actually do that?

You can also get an API key from SolarEdge so you can have pvoutput log the data.

Cool, will look into that, too. Thanks!

 

[power.saver]

The individual PW serial numbers are behind the black plastic cover on the left side of the PW. There is a label below the wiring compartment.

 

[cwied]

I'm pretty sure the solar side is disconnected from the Powerwall side. That is, the solar inverter most likely does not talk to the Gateway. I have a SolarEdge inverter as part of a pre-existing solar installation. Tesla did not do anything to change its setup when they installed the Powerwalls.

Both my SolarEdge inverter and Powerwall Gateway are plugged in to my local network. As far as I know the only way the Gateway knows anything about my solar production is through the Neurio, though.

 

[miimura]

My mistake. I saw that Neurio was available with a RS-485 interface, so I assumed that Tesla used it. Evidently it is WiFi bridging those inches between the two boxes inside the Gateway enclosure.

The Gateway only knows about your solar generation through the Neurio CT measurements. There is no communication between the Gateway and the many different solar inverters on the market.

Here is a diagram of my understanding of how my system communicates.

 

[Yonki]

The individual PW serial numbers are behind the black plastic cover on the left side of the PW. There is a label below the wiring compartment.

Yes but first I need to figure out how to remove the side panels. The detachable tab Ulmo documented isn't on my Powerwall.

 

[cwied]

You can also get the serial numbers by logging in to the Tesla gateway and clicking on the "summary" link.

 

[Yonki]

My mistake. I saw that Neurio was available with a RS-485 interface, so I assumed that Tesla used it. Evidently it is WiFi bridging those inches between the two boxes inside the Gateway enclosure.

Yes...I think it's the TEG-xxx network, which I was able to log into once I was pointed here. Once I did that I was able to add the Gateway to my LAN (blue line below).

The Gateway only knows about your solar generation through the Neurio CT measurements. There is no communication between the Gateway and the many different solar inverters on the market.

Makes sense. It looks like when the system is working, Tesla gets everything it needs from the Gateway. Only needs inverter connection for debugging. (Maybe they use it to sanity check their Neurio inverter measurements.)

Here is a diagram of my understanding of how my system communicates.

That was very helpful! I have a much better idea what's going on now.

 

[Yonki]

You can also get the serial numbers by logging in to the Tesla gateway and clicking on the "summary" link.

Got it, thanks!

 

[miimura]

The TEG-xxx WiFi is present for configuration purposes. I should have shown it on the diagram as a separate thing. The Neurio WiFi must be using non-broadcast SSID since it's factory paired. Your optional WiFi or Ethernet link is correct.

 

[israndy]

I see that Neur.io has the ability to detect appliances that are using power in your house by identifying the signature of the item, though the most recent video I watched said they had to pull 400 watts to be identified, but they expect to get better with time. Like the Sense product. But if you have the Neur.io product and it's really owned by Tesla is there a way to get that functionality? The way Tesla isn't willing to share the schematics of the power system you paid for, I imagine they are unwilling to share the password for the Neur.io.

-Randy

 

[Ampster]

But if you have the Neur.io product and it's really owned by Tesla is there a way to get that functionality? The way Tesla isn't willing to share the schematics of the power system you paid for, I imagine they are unwilling to share the password for the Neur.io.

I have a nuerio that I bought on Ebay and it does not have that capability. The website makes it seem like they do but I think when they got the contract for Powewalls they stopped developing new capabilities and focused on supplying Tesla.

 

[Yonki]

The TEG-xxx WiFi is present for configuration purposes. I should have shown it on the diagram as a separate thing. The Neurio WiFi must be using non-broadcast SSID since it's factory paired.

Why couldn't TEG-xxx be the WiFi network the Neurio is factory paired with? I don't see any reason why it couldn't be or why it would need a hidden SSID. Just factory pair each Neurio with its gateway’s TEG-xxx and its unique (serial number) password.

I sure hope that's the case - otherwise the WiFi pollution this system generates is an embarrassment. Very un-Elon.