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Tesla Energy for Apartment Buildings

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I have been thinking about the fact that a large percentage of the population, especially in Metro areas live in Apartment Complexes. This has always been a problem when it comes to install Solar, Powerwalls and even wall chargers.

The other interesting point here is that many apartment complexes actually have quite vast under-utilised roof space with no mechanism by which to fairly distribute the economic cost and benefit of solar and battery.

As a though experiment what does everyone think of the following?

1. Owners Corporation propose a Special Levy to raise the Capital Works funding required to deploy a 10-50kW solar array with or without multiple Powerwall batteries. Let's say you have a 12 Unit Residential Apartment Building with enough roof space for 100 panels this should generate an average of 120kW/h per day in energy. Couple this with 6 Power walls and you could offset a large proportion of the grid.

2. Tesla installs the solar system with behind the meter connections to each Lot within the Apartment Building. A centralised distribution board tracks exactly how many kW/h are consumed by each Lot. Excess solar generation is exported against the Common Area meter to the grid. Tesla would develop a special Gateway that orchestrates the power to each Lot, controls loads on for vehicle charging and ensures every kW/h is apportioned to the respective resident whether they are an owner or tenant.

3. Tesla invoices each Lot Resident per kW/h consumed behind the meter directly at a heavily discounted rate. Say for example, 12c per kW/h instead of the average 25c per kW/h. This means Residents can enjoy say an 80% discount in electricity bills.

4. Tesla takes a 10% commission on all payments and deposits the remainder into the Owners Corporation bank account and therefore makes a small ongoing revenue from the system. The Owners Corporation on the other hand can make 5 - 10% ROI on the initial investment.

Some numbers:
System cost: $60,000
Average Daily Generation: 120kW/h
Price per kW/h: $0.12
Yearly Revenue: $5,256
Tesla Margin: $525.6
Owners Corp. Revenue: $4730.4

Owners Corp. ROI: 7.88%

Assuming 15yr lifespan with 1% degradation per annum the whole thing would net itself out and cost essentially nothing. When it comes time to refresh the system, Tesla would come out and install everything again except the economics would probably mean an even steeper discount in rates to the Resident and thus driving down Electricity costs in the long run.
 
I have been thinking about the fact that a large percentage of the population, especially in Metro areas live in Apartment Complexes. This has always been a problem when it comes to install Solar, Powerwalls and even wall chargers.

The other interesting point here is that many apartment complexes actually have quite vast under-utilised roof space with no mechanism by which to fairly distribute the economic cost and benefit of solar and battery.

As a though experiment what does everyone think of the following?

1. Owners Corporation propose a Special Levy to raise the Capital Works funding required to deploy a 10-50kW solar array with or without multiple Powerwall batteries. Let's say you have a 12 Unit Residential Apartment Building with enough roof space for 100 panels this should generate an average of 120kW/h per day in energy. Couple this with 6 Power walls and you could offset a large proportion of the grid.

2. Tesla installs the solar system with behind the meter connections to each Lot within the Apartment Building. A centralised distribution board tracks exactly how many kW/h are consumed by each Lot. Excess solar generation is exported against the Common Area meter to the grid. Tesla would develop a special Gateway that orchestrates the power to each Lot, controls loads on for vehicle charging and ensures every kW/h is apportioned to the respective resident whether they are an owner or tenant.

3. Tesla invoices each Lot Resident per kW/h consumed behind the meter directly at a heavily discounted rate. Say for example, 12c per kW/h instead of the average 25c per kW/h. This means Residents can enjoy say an 80% discount in electricity bills.

4. Tesla takes a 10% commission on all payments and deposits the remainder into the Owners Corporation bank account and therefore makes a small ongoing revenue from the system. The Owners Corporation on the other hand can make 5 - 10% ROI on the initial investment.

Some numbers:
System cost: $60,000
Average Daily Generation: 120kW/h
Price per kW/h: $0.12
Yearly Revenue: $5,256
Tesla Margin: $525.6
Owners Corp. Revenue: $4730.4

Owners Corp. ROI: 7.88%

Assuming 15yr lifespan with 1% degradation per annum the whole thing would net itself out and cost essentially nothing. When it comes time to refresh the system, Tesla would come out and install everything again except the economics would probably mean an even steeper discount in rates to the Resident and thus driving down Electricity costs in the long run.
Very interesting topic. I think building owners would be at first interested to cover their own utilities,
such as elevator and keeping the light on in public areas, heating and venting hallways...

All of those could be self sufficient using solar panels and Powerwalls.
 
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Very interesting topic. I think building owners would be at first interested to cover their own utilities,
such as elevator and keeping the light on in public areas, heating and venting hallways...

All of those could be self sufficient using solar panels and Powerwalls.

That could be done today without any changes on the Tesla side. The only issue is that its not fully maximising the available roof space and self utilisation potential. If you powered the common areas only, you'd still need to do a lot of cabling and labor. You may as well do it once get the economies of scale and hook everyone in the Unit block up. It also would mean that people who don't bother with signing up to the Tesla alternative don't get in the way.
 
Interesting idea. My building is too tall (and roof too crowded) for any meaningful solar per resident. But we do have an emergency diesel generator. I wonder how many Powerpacks (Megapack?) it would take to replace it.

The real question seems to be if our building could get credit from the power company for having a big battery that could help stabalize the grid. That income would pay for the battery.

Instead we have a dirty diesel money sink for the one six hour power outage we get every other year.
 
In California we have what is called Net Meter Aggregation. You can have a solar generating facility on one meter and assign the surplus generation to adjacent meters in a fixed proportion. Like in the example above, if you have 12 residential units plus the common area, you could assign 8% of the surplus generation to each residential meter and keep the remaining 4% for the common area to offset night usage. However, I don't know if it can be applied when the meters are billed to different entities. I believe it is intended for cases where a single property or adjacent properties under common ownership are served by different service drops and meters.
 
Interesting idea. My building is too tall (and roof too crowded) for any meaningful solar per resident. But we do have an emergency diesel generator. I wonder how many Powerpacks (Megapack?) it would take to replace it.

The real question seems to be if our building could get credit from the power company for having a big battery that could help stabalize the grid. That income would pay for the battery.

Instead we have a dirty diesel money sink for the one six hour power outage we get every other year.
I have ToU for my car, and I calculated that if I was using batteries for my refrigerator during the day during peak hours,
and using the grid to run the refrigerator and to recharge the batteries during the night at off peak rate,
if would save 40% of the electricity cost of running my refrigerator directly to the grid.
But I didn't calculated how long it would take to break even the cost of the batteries and inverters.

So just using batteries for the common area could be certainly worthwhile, and you get the emergency power included.

Note: I believe that Electrical Power companies DO NOT ALLOW charging Powerwall batteries at night, unless you have an EV.
They want the Powerwall batteries to be ONLY charged by solar panels.
There is an exception in case of bad weather were Power companies allow to recharge you batteries if there is a risk of power failure.
 
Sacramento (SMUD) is trying to offer community solar as an alternative. There are pros and cons to it, but I think that's a great way to allow renters to buy into solar and have the savings follow if the person moves.

... and, it's approved. I prefer a managed solar farm vs individual rooftop solar. 1. It is cheaper to install and 2. It's cheaper to maintain.
From my calculation (not in Cali), it would cost about 11 cents a kWh amortized over 20 years at 4% interest and not accounting for replacement central inverter at 10 years. Utilities are getting bids at 3 cents a kWh for solar + battery but, of course, you would have to account for the cost of land (cheaper outside of city). Gotta do the math and compare.

California approves controversial solar plan in Sacramento
 
My units are correct.
kW is a measure of power.

kWh is a measure of energy.

If you generate 1 kW continually for 1 hour, 1 kWh was produced.
1 kW for 10 hours? 10 kWh

Watts are already joules per second. Joules per second per hour makes no sense.

This has been covered over and over on TMC.

Go look at your electric bill. You will definitely be billed for energy, in cents per kWh. If you have demand charges (not common on US residential plans), those are by kW. If you are curious about demand vs. energy charges, see Wayback Machine.

Go look at estimates of annual production for a given solar installation, it will be in kWh or MWh.

Dave EV: What's up with the disagree? You've had an EV longer than me and therefore you should know.
 
Dave EV: What's up with the disagree? You've had an EV longer than me and therefore you should know.
Because it's close enough that it doesn't matter and 90% of your posts are spent solely correcting people's units instead of contributing on-topic information.

1 kW for an hour (eg 1 kWh or 1 kW/h) is close enough. Yeah - he threw in an extra / - big whoop. At least he get the h in there - there's no confusion as to what he meant.

Now back the topic at hand...

I agree that solar needs to be an option for apartment dwellers. But many apartments lack the roof-space for any significant solar. Still, a community solar approach could be useful.

On the other hand, I've seen a mobile-home park recently which had some a number decent sized ground-mount PV arrays over parking spaces installed (the kind you often see at schools here in California). I wonder if they some sort of community solar project and residents are able to share the power. The size and number of arrays is large enough that it should provide far more than necessary to offset shared area usage.
 
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Sorry about the extra / in my units. I know what kW and kWh are. May be a regional thing as I am outside the US and have seen it written like I had.

anyway, the other thing that’s I keep thinking about is the amount of money sitting in sinking funds/ capital works funds for buildings. Most have multiple $10,000s sitting in a bank account earning close to zero interest.

All it would take is a packaged product and service by Tesla and owners could vote to put their dormant cash to work.
 
Sorry about the extra / in my units. I know what kW and kWh are. May be a regional thing as I am outside the US and have seen it written like I had.

anyway, the other thing that’s I keep thinking about is the amount of money sitting in sinking funds/ capital works funds for buildings. Most have multiple $10,000s sitting in a bank account earning close to zero interest.

All it would take is a packaged product and service by Tesla and owners could vote to put their dormant cash to work.

Makes me think of this... :)

kW is a rate and is already kW/hr

upload_2020-2-22_21-4-22.png
 
kW is a rate
Yes.
and is already kW/hr
Huh? Kilojoules per hour per second?

Maybe you're thinking of kWh/h? The h's cancel out by division leaving kW.

On a side note: The incorrect unit usage also irks a co-worker of mine who used to trade natural gas for a living. He said that only time that "kW/h" might make sense is if you had a power plant (say 1 megawatt) and you were talking about its ramp up rate to generating 1 MW.
 
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